Official Blender Post! Lets theory craft for 1.2! 123k Cleave DPS!

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TQuilleur wrote:
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lilianmarius wrote:
Hello guys i have few questions for which i hope i can find an answer here :

Will Cyclone benefit more from an higher attack speed combo of 1h weapons ?
Atm I am at around 4.04 attack speed with Cyclone using a 1.25 attack speed axe and 1.57 attack speed Bloodseker claw.

I am using Cyclone in BoR linked with Conc Effect (lv 15) + LGoH + Blood Magic - (11.5 k Cyclone DPS on tooltip with Hatred ON)

If i change for 2 weapons - lets say dual rapiers with 2.0 and 1.9 attack speed , will the increase attack speed improve my Cyclone efficiency considering the pDPS stays the same ?

Also will LGoH linked with Cyclone benefit also from this increase in attack speed values ?

Also is there a noticeable increase of efficiency of Cyclone when using 2 x rapiers (range - 7) then using 1h axe (range - 5) + claw ( range - 5) ?

All in one is better to have a higher attack speed combo of 1h weapons when using Cyclone or Dual Strike with this build or is better to go for higher DPS weapons but with lower attack speed stats ?

This is my current gear setup , feel free to post any advices regarding improvements

Spoiler


Thank you for your advices !




Get a better belt with some chaos res, a better amulet with add phys and life leech, switch your chaos ring for resistance/hp/add phys.Same Gloves with more chaos would be great. With 3 to 4% life leech on your gear, you can put away that bloodseeker for a better pdps weapon (sword to be able to wrilling).

About your other question, i don't really have answers, as the toolbox for cyclone is completely wrong. Just about the range, as you use concentrated, if you use claws, cyclone won't be an aoe anymore xD That's why i prefer using weapon elemental dammage rather than concentrated. And using concentrated, you need more intel to up hit, rather than weapon elemental is a strengh gem.


I want to change my weapons these days , managed to gather finally some currency after endless Piety/Dominus/maps farming (about 14 exalts ) to get 1 or 2 better weapons to change the claw and axe i am using now but i really have doubts about what weapons to buy

I was thinking to buy a ~300 pdps rapier with 2.0 aspd and another sword/rapier/axe around 280 pdps with 1.5-1.8 aspd , loosing the insta 9 % leech from claw i can handle i think with replacing my current amulet with a Carnage Heart maybe ?

But i really want to know before spending those so hard gathered exalts what combo of 1h weapons will maximize my investment regarding range/pDPS/ASPD when thinking that i will use Cyclone or Dual Strike as main skill

From what i read from various sources, some say is recommended to go with weapons with range as max as possible (eg. rapiers) when using Cyclone together with stacking as much as possible Attack speed that will improve Cyclone overall DPS and also the leech from LGoH gem

Others say that when you have 2 weapons with same pDPS but different attack speed values , the one with lower attack speed value is better due to more damage per hit, meaning more critter’s armor is penetrated resulting in higher overall damage.

I cant afford to make tests to see if higher ASPD does really matter when is about using Cyclone/Dual Strike that's why i asked on forums in hope i'll get an answer from people who know the mechanics and want to help with advises

So i really dont know what to choose and i really hope i'll get an answer to these questions that bothers me
Last edited by lilianmarius#0775 on Jan 29, 2014, 6:06:58 AM
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TQuilleur wrote:
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HighBlow wrote:
since i can't find a better DPS build and i wasted some time to lvl this up i'm gonna stick to it, so please tell me what do you think about my gear (i know its garbage compared to Bors and STaker but i cant afford them yet) and if you guys changed the passive build in any way since its 2 months old.



Helmet and boots are good. If you can, try getting some move speed on your boots, to move normaly while using cyclone (+30 move speed from boots, -30 from cyclone). Gloves are bad. Try stacking some life leech on them. You got plenty of life gain on hit but you need life leech too. Try finding a chast with resistances. And you understood that you need some chaos res, great ;) Oh, and don't put a double curse on CWDT, you can curse only one time. Btw, vulnerability os better than warlord. You can put something like summon skeleton, this is similar to decoy totem.


first of all thanks alot for advice ,i buyed the boots without move speed because i dont use cyclone yet and i move around with Whirling and leap and the gloves were the cheapest with some atack speed and the chest i made it with a few chaos, keep in mind that its a budget build for me i dont think it cost me more than 30 chaos :P.For the next step would you use BOR or tabula rasa with a good helm ?

ohh and i forgot to ask... i replace mark with vulnerability and if instead of enfeble use summon skeletons witch i will put in boots but i still have decoy totem and its kinda useless .
Last edited by HighBlow#1850 on Jan 29, 2014, 9:04:22 AM
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HighBlow wrote:

first of all thanks alot for advice ,i buyed the boots without move speed because i dont use cyclone yet and i move around with Whirling and leap and the gloves were the cheapest with some atack speed and the chest i made it with a few chaos, keep in mind that its a budget build for me i dont think it cost me more than 30 chaos :P.For the next step would you use BOR or tabula rasa with a good helm ?

ohh and i forgot to ask... i replace mark with vulnerability and if instead of enfeble use summon skeletons witch i will put in boots but i still have decoy totem and its kinda useless .


BoR of course. It's really better than tabula rasa + rare helmet. It give you block chance, 7 link, lot of life and armor. That is true that having a 6Link with full quality gems will give you more dammage than with BoR, but the block chance on BoR is really good.

Decoy totem is completely usefull,don't put it away. More usefull in group if everyone got it.
So how does this build hold up whilst levelling a hardcore char?

Like, Vaal Cruel/Merci and Dominus Cruel? Is it possible to do alone?
If you want to use a ranged spell, what do you use?

I want to use this for the new ladder in a month, but I'm in doubt I can reach act 3 Merciless totally on my own.
Skill build looks good, but I have some suggestions:

1) Replace the 2x6% resist all nodes with 3x18% resist each in the Scion tree. Gain access to 15% phys damage.
2) Replace 3x3% ias nodes in the ranger tree with 2 dex nodes and gain access to 3x8% life.
This creates a deficit of 4 skill points, but there are numerous 10% phys damage nodes taken that can be dismissed. The trade-off:

-25% phys damage
-9% ias
+6% resist all
+24% max life
+20 dex

Since this is a low dex build, +20 dex helps meet dex requirements for high-dex gear.

Alternatively, 3 of the skill points away from Berserking, and the trade-offs become:

+5% phys dmg
-27% ias
+6% resist all
+24% max life
+20 dex

Since this build should already have at least 2-300% ias with multi strike, I think the extra ias is not worth it. thoughts?
just dropped dual strike from bor and put in cyclone with blood magic

my cyclone dps is 10k now with auras

dropping dual strike altogether now

so now ive got a 4 link spare now

might put in another cast when damage taken setup but not sure what gems to use
Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside while still alive. Never surrender -tupac shakur
I collected some comments on what curse & auras to go for.
Are they really the best to run?


Auras:
Grace > Hatred > Haste > Determination > Purity of Elements

I run Grace+Hatred. Can you even get a third one in your Mana-Pool?


Curse:
Vulnerability > Enfeeble > Warlord's Mark

I haven't tried the 2 others yet, but Warlord's Mark gives me at least a little advantage by increasing my life leech from 2% to ~5%. Are the other two really that much better?


Cast on Damage taken (Level 1) supported by:
Your Curse of Choice > Decoy Totem > Enduring Cry > Molten Shell > Immortal Call > Raise Zombie

I'm running the first 3, but i experimented with Molten Shell earlier. It was nice too.
Is it worth to go for a second CoDt? So you could go for possibly on lvl 1 and one lvl 10 CoDt-Gem. The low one could generate Endurance-Charges and the higher one could use them for immortal call occasionally, if you get hit heavy.


Life on Hit:
How is life on hit calculated with Dual Strike and Cyclone?
Is DS 1 or 2 Hits with each attack?
And Cyclone is 2 Hits per 360°, but how fast is he turning?
It can't be 1 turn in the time shown at the tooltip. It seems much faster!


I hope to get some feedback to improve a bit more.
Sorry if its a stupid post, but I'm currently lvl 86, and I reworked into max HP, because I felt like it was needed for my progress. Now I am in a dilemma, I have options in going for 1 of the 2 " 10% Increased Melee Physical Damage " nods in the Templar starting area (after which I can get the 12% one), or take the " 10% increased Physical Damage with One Handed Melee Weapons " next to Weapon Artistry (close to ranger start). If you would, please explain to me what would benefit more, if there is a difference, and why. I currently run Bringer of Rain with Added Fire gem and Hatered aura as elemental damage boost, and using Multistrike + Melee Splash + Dual Strike (with soul taker). Sorry for the long post but I'm unsure of which is better. Ty 
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Giku wrote:
So how does this build hold up whilst levelling a hardcore char?

Like, Vaal Cruel/Merci and Dominus Cruel? Is it possible to do alone?
If you want to use a ranged spell, what do you use?

I want to use this for the new ladder in a month, but I'm in doubt I can reach act 3 Merciless totally on my own.


I think if you want to do one in HC, don't follow the order x2p wrote about the skill tree. The more important is to get survivability : go on the left of the tree (full life nod) + Iron Reflexe + 30% stun avoidance. Around level 40 you should have IR+30% avoidance and already started left tree.



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Samus2 wrote:
I collected some comments on what curse & auras to go for.
Are they really the best to run?


Auras:
Grace > Hatred > Haste > Determination > Purity of Elements

I run Grace+Hatred. Can you even get a third one in your Mana-Pool?


Curse:
Vulnerability > Enfeeble > Warlord's Mark

I haven't tried the 2 others yet, but Warlord's Mark gives me at least a little advantage by increasing my life leech from 2% to ~5%. Are the other two really that much better?


Cast on Damage taken (Level 1) supported by:
Your Curse of Choice > Decoy Totem > Enduring Cry > Molten Shell > Immortal Call > Raise Zombie

I'm running the first 3, but i experimented with Molten Shell earlier. It was nice too.
Is it worth to go for a second CoDt? So you could go for possibly on lvl 1 and one lvl 10 CoDt-Gem. The low one could generate Endurance-Charges and the higher one could use them for immortal call occasionally, if you get hit heavy.


Life on Hit:
How is life on hit calculated with Dual Strike and Cyclone?
Is DS 1 or 2 Hits with each attack?
And Cyclone is 2 Hits per 360°, but how fast is he turning?
It can't be 1 turn in the time shown at the tooltip. It seems much faster!


I hope to get some feedback to improve a bit more.


Aura : Grace and Hatred are the best. Hatred for DPS is the best you can have, and grace give you more evasion, so more armor with IR, than determination. No need purity as you are already caped.

Curse : Vulnerability or Enfeeble. I prefer to use enfeeble on cwdt as i already do enough dammage, don't need more. Even if you have a good regeneration with life gain on hit, you can take some big dammage, so i think enfeeble is better.

CWDT : the 3 first as you say. Then, if you do another CWDT, molten shell is great, and you can choose to run immortal call or life leech with it. Up your CWDT up to something like level 4 or 5 (level 10 is too much i think. Don't exaclty know the dammge, but 4 or 5 should be enough), molten shell will give you a good armor, immortal call will last longer, and the dammage of molten shell will be good for the leech. I prefer life leech than immortal call as i always prefer to have my 3 or 4 endurance charges.

Life on Hit: Better with cyclone, of course, even better if you got q20 cyclone, more range. Hit count as 1 for DS normaly. Anyway, life gain on hit is clearly better with cyclone. If you got trouble about the lowest dps of cyclone, remember that the toolbox for cyclone is wrong. Just try to kill kole with DS and then cyclone. You should spend the same time for both, so the dps of DS is the real DPS of cyclone.


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OliverProFaust wrote:
Sorry if its a stupid post, but I'm currently lvl 86, and I reworked into max HP, because I felt like it was needed for my progress. Now I am in a dilemma, I have options in going for 1 of the 2 " 10% Increased Melee Physical Damage " nods in the Templar starting area (after which I can get the 12% one), or take the " 10% increased Physical Damage with One Handed Melee Weapons " next to Weapon Artistry (close to ranger start). If you would, please explain to me what would benefit more, if there is a difference, and why. I currently run Bringer of Rain with Added Fire gem and Hatered aura as elemental damage boost, and using Multistrike + Melee Splash + Dual Strike (with soul taker). Sorry for the long post but I'm unsure of which is better. Ty 


First of all, go for cyclone x) It's really much better. Better than better if you got soul taker^^ Then, as you finished the normal tree, you can do as you want x) I'm 86 too, and now, i'm rushing amplify to improve the AoE of cyclone. I should have it around level 93 but i don't care, that will be so much better^^ Normaly, melee physical dammage is better. I'm not sure of it. You can test it x) 1 regret is you already have soul taker isn't that much ;)
How can I level up my anger gem if it isn't recommended that I grab intellect passives?

Do I find gear that has a little intellect or is that frowned upon?

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