Why I'm quitting PoE and no longer recommending it to friends

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Metronomy wrote:

I am more in favour of a recipe rather than cutting off the upper limit for unlucky people, simply because it goes against the nature of gambling. However I would still be ok with the other solution so long as the amount of orbs required for a guarantee was actually higher than a recipe solution might be.

i would not be ok with the other solution at all. it should be separated completely, a choice.

and as a choice, i strongly believe most would read the forums, realize that gambling might be a better option, and choose it rather than collect a huge number of orbs for the recipe. giving the player a choice, any choice, immediately shifts the guilt and thus nobody would complain about the mechanic of fusing orbs, which is an awesome thing just like any other design ideas GGG made. i love the ideas behind this game!

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Metronomy wrote:

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StillSingle wrote:

Based on the mathematical analysis above, setting a flat chance that high would be worthless, because only the most unlucky would roll 1500 fusings and still fail.

Probability Reference since 0.9.6f

I dont know where you got your figures from, but as far as I know the most recent figures show that there is only 306 possible combinations when fusing a 6 slot item.

This makes the probability formula which I stated before, which is similar to yours but I didnt say "Success"
(1 - ((305/306)^X)) = '6L Chance'

[Edit] Fixed the quotation to not include my apology!!

My Bad. I must have mis-remembered your formula (and the 308 was again a remembering thing).

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Dao wrote:

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Metronomy wrote:

I am more in favour of a recipe rather than cutting off the upper limit for unlucky people, simply because it goes against the nature of gambling. However I would still be ok with the other solution so long as the amount of orbs required for a guarantee was actually higher than a recipe solution might be.

i would not be ok with the other solution at all. it should be separated completely, a choice.

and as a choice, i strongly believe most would read the forums, realize that gambling might be a better option, and choose it rather than collect a huge number of orbs for the recipe. giving the player a choice, any choice, immediately shifts the guilt and thus nobody would complain about the mechanic of fusing orbs, which is an awesome thing just like any other design ideas GGG made. i love the ideas behind this game!

we must weigh the two approaches. gambling on one hand fist with the whole rng. But it has a very big issue. gambling is easily the fastest way to get a person to quit a game if it is poorly implemented.

I dono about you , but if I blew 300 fusing on a 6l and got nothing id quit on spot and never look back , because its the equivalent of the game saying hey you just wasted a month of your life but thats ok you can try again and waste another with the stupidly rigged gambling odds we have on you.

but then again having a fixed price would force me to leave too , simply because i look at how long it takes to accumulate fusings and what a 6l is worth too me and see the disparity and give up before i try.

that is why so many left diablo 3 , getting the average item was fine , but getting the truly worth while gear took 10s of millions of gold.

so you gotta tred carefully. Bad rng kills games , it killed diablo 3 after all

in this case ill probably just avoid 6l and settle for 5l and treat the game as if 6l doesnt even exist.

I keep seeing players in this thread asserting how 6L is not necessary, is not required, is not important, is not a significant upgrade, is only a luxury. If this is the case, then why are those same players so adamant about keeping in place the current system for acquiring one? Why does that matter so?

unlike d3, good items are plenty, and the whole orb system is excellent.

amazing items must be as rare as it gets.

if you set your goals too high you might as well plan on being disappointed unless you get really lucky.

especially since you can have an item drop with great stats and you have a system to modify the sockets and links for you. it should not be easy.

if this post was about not getting a unique to drop, we would all dismiss it easily, why not with a 6l?

you will be given a choice, and this is the greatest design anybody could offer - give a choice. if a player chooses then they could only blame themselves for gambling.

and the numbers show that gambling would be faster than gathering that big number of orbs, so in the end it will be worth it too.

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Xaxyx wrote:

I keep seeing players in this thread asserting how 6L is not necessary, is not required, is not important, is not a significant upgrade, is only a luxury. If this is the case, then why are those same players so adamant about keeping in place the current system for acquiring one? Why does that matter so?

because if you give everybody money they don't need to work. if they don't need to work then who would produce anything? what would be there to buy with that money?

getting a 6l is not required, but it is an improvement. this game is about, among other things, gear hunt and improving your gear. if you could get all gear in a week, how long would you keep it up? maybe 4-8 characters, meaning 1-2 months, what else would be there to do?

hence why i wont care if it does or doesn't change . ill just pretend that 6l isn't even part of the game and move on. let the hard core players amass the bazillion fusing needed to get 6l

So it seems that players fall into 2 camps.

1) I love gambling and want to risk it for the biscut!
2) I hate gambling and want a systematic way of attaining my goals.

So in order to NOT take away from the first group. And to alleviate the pain of the second group. Like mentioned before its the process that we want to chance NOT the actually statistics of getting anything more making ANYTHING more available.

Solution 1:
Make a new type of orb that combines say "50" orbs into a new orbs for easier storage and that has increased odds of becoming a 6L. Average out the odds to make this so that After using 10 of these orbs, its the same odds as having rolled 500+ orbs (or maybe its even higher than the 1:1 ratio and gives an even higher probability). This mental factor alone would help considering people have something to work towards (ie getting 10 of these new orbs) rather than playing the pure lotto game...

Solution 2:
Change the current system so that the statistics/probability of getting a 6L start increasing after a certain lvl. I would NOT have this be based upon character level but item level as this would alleviate the "inflows" of 6L onto the market. Lower levels would not be able to use the gear, and this allows players who couldnt get one through RNG have a higher probability by leveling their character, which gives a more "systematic" way of doing it.

BOTH of these options do NOT take away from type 1 people but help alleviate the "unfun" nature of type 2.

The whole "Its a luxury item" thing makes NO difference. Its how people perceive the game and its based upon what people are going to do because of fun versus because they feel compelled. You do NOT want a F2P game where you feel limited/walled because of RNG. This will NOT sit well with casual-semi casual gamers! Only the hardcore want total RNG because they can spend the time to play the law of averages. 6 slots should be rare, but also not beyond the grasp of anyone who puts in a copious amount of time towards a goal. THAT is the "carrot on a stick" that keeps people playing and keeps bringing cash into the cash shop for "more fun" while accomplishing their goals...

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Dao wrote:

because if you give everybody money they don't need to work. if they don't need to work then who would produce anything? what would be there to buy with that money?

What, and 6L is the only item available for purchase? The entire game's economy revolves solely around it?

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getting a 6l is not required, but it is an improvement. this game is about, among other things, gear hunt and improving your gear. if you could get all gear in a week, how long would you keep it up? maybe 4-8 characters, meaning 1-2 months, what else would be there to do?

And once we have a 6L for all the characters we care about? We're back to the same scenario. If you think that the game can run out of things to do, that's a problem -- but that problem has no bearing on the relatively availability of 6L.