Shock NEEDS to be changed

Even one stack of shock at +40% is a very dangerous effect. It becomes a serious issue when you can get 3 thrown on you simultaniously.

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Flickerflare wrote:

Even one stack of shock at +40% is a very dangerous effect. It becomes a serious issue when you can get 3 thrown on you simultaniously.

Exactly and with skills like lightning strike and spark, simultaneous shock stacks aren't an unusual occurance.

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Brigs wrote:

We need time to react to shock

OK, I'm going to avoid going down the whole "learn to play" fanboi route. But here's the deal. I have minimal game knowledge (I had to look up the exact effects of shock just to understand this thread). My gear is typically utter crap (I hate trading). Certainly in the various characters I've played I've run into a fair amount of getting my ass shocked. But so far, at least, I'm just not seeing it as a problem.

When I'm in an area where there is elemental damage I'm quite aware of it. My rings have probably changed to accommodate it. I surely don't go blowing into packs of monsters. Usually I'm pretty careful to get hit once or twice as a "test hit" to see how badly it all hurts. In other words, my typical onslaught play style of "creep forward, kill carefully, don't ever get hit" seems to work.

Speaking as a total noob, the idea that simultaneous shock stacks even exist is sort of news to me. The idea that elemental damage is fatal in this game (or pretty much any damage actually) seems hard to miss.

Snapple99, the damage at higher levels and maps is already tuned in expectation that you will have very high resistances.

Even with lightning resist flask (wich also increases resist cap), you can still take a huge amount of damage.

What is being discussed in this thread, is the situations where you can 3 stacks of shock in 1 second and then insta-gibbed by whatever damage comes next.

It doesn't give you time to use flasks, nothing. You just die.

Shock "maximum potential" is not the issue.
Merely the speed it can stack upon you.

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Nurvus wrote:

What is being discussed in this thread, is the situations where you can 3 stacks of shock in 1 second and then insta-gibbed by whatever damage comes next.

It doesn't even take a 4th hit to kill. You can get triple shock stacked simultaneously, the 1st hit damages for 100%dmg, 2nd hit for 140%dmg, and 3rd hit for 180%dmg. Not to mention these are all crits most of the time...which means 150% dmg, then 210%, then 270%.

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snapple99 wrote:

OK, I'm going to avoid going down the whole "learn to play" fanboi route. But here's the deal. I have minimal game knowledge (I had to look up the exact effects of shock just to understand this thread). My gear is typically utter crap (I hate trading). Certainly in the various characters I've played I've run into a fair amount of getting my ass shocked. But so far, at least, I'm just not seeing it as a problem.

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Nurvus wrote:

Snapple99, the damage at higher levels and maps is already tuned in expectation that you will have very high resistances.

Even with lightning resist flask (wich also increases resist cap), you can still take a huge amount of damage.

What is being discussed in this thread, is the situations where you can 3 stacks of shock in 1 second and then insta-gibbed by whatever damage comes next.

It doesn't give you time to use flasks, nothing. You just die.

Shock "maximum potential" is not the issue.
Merely the speed it can stack upon you.

Precisely this. If you think "WAAAAH 3 INSTANT SHOCK STACKS AT LEVEL 14!" is nothing, wait until you get to level 70+ maps with "Monsters fire 4 additional projectiles" and the map decides they're going to throw in inherent splitting lightning skeletons that can hit you with 7-10 lightning balls in one single attack, which pretty much means if any single one of those scores a critical, the rest score a critical; you're instantly triple shocked and killed before you even know what happened.

If spell-shotgunning was fixed, this would be far less of an issue.

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Nurvus wrote:

Snapple99, the damage at higher levels and maps is already tuned in expectation that you will have very high resistances.

*nods* thanks. I should've guessed. Basically, at some level I'll never see it becomes yet another one-shot dynamic. GGG seems fond of them apparently thinking it makes the game "hard".

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Nurvus wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I think instead of 3 stacks of 40% we should allow 5 stacks of 25%. Currently, the problem with both player and monster shock damage is quickly going from zero stacks to 2 or 3 in no time at all, causing massive damage; this change would make the progress more gradual, leading to more of an emphasis on building shock stacks on things that are already shocked rather than this one-shot multi-hits-at-once nonsense.

I like this idea.

Even 4 stacks of 30% is better than 3 stacks of 40%.
But I think 6 stacks of 20% is more adequate.

We must realize it's not just the damage we are improving, but also the chances of applying ANYTHING, from stuns to freeze AND to additional shocks as well.

Furthermore, this is particularly insane against armor.
Since armor reduces less damage the bigger the hits are, a hit modified by shock will not only be stronger, but also LESS reduced - wich makes it EVEN stronger.

This is explained in more detail in here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j5a_voG6K4

Or 3 stacks of 20%, plus 1 from static blows for a total of 4 stacks of 20%.

No. THat's an outright nerf to shock damage potential. That's not what needs to be done.

The danger of shock needs to exist.

The speed at wich shock stacks is what needs to be slowed.

So the total damage increase when stacked to the max needs to be the same.
The damage increase per stack needs to be lower, and the number of stacks increased to compensate.

That's why I suggest 20% damage per stack, for 6 stacks.
The duration of the stacks could even be slightly longer.

Died instantly again today during 3-hour TA race at Normal ledge by Kuduku, the False God. Instant triple shock stack is the culprit as usual. I even had a bit of lightning res.

Now that I have a better understanding of how shock works(whether or not you are shocked is based on whether the lightning damage surpasses a specific threshold) I agree with Nurvus that changing shock to 6 stacks of 20% would slow shock stacking enough to allow for a timely response. The possibility of being instantly killed would be significantly lower.
For a detailed example, read on:

As it is now(3 stacks of 40%):
Triple shock stacks occur because a crit is 150% the damage of a normal hit. If that breaks the threshold, the second attack, let's say it's not a crit, would do 100%+40%= 140% damage. That's almost as much as the crit, and is also likely to break the threshold, thus applying a second stack. The third stack, again not critting, would deal 180% damage, breaking the threshold yet again, adding a third stack. If you are even alive at this point, a fourth attack deals 220% damage, 70% more that the initial crit. If this all happens in an instant(4 sparks for instance) you take 150(crit)+140+180+220= 690% damage. Let's say you died at 600%

Changing shock from 3 stacks of 40% to 6 stacks of 20% would mean you could likely absorb the second spark(so long as it wasn't a crit) of 120% damage without exceeding the shock threshold. It would take two subsequent lightning damage crits to reach the point where another non-crit spark would likely exceed the shock threshold.

In this scenario, the only way to be instant-killed by 4 sparks would require the first 2 sparks to crit instead of just the first:
150(crit)+170(crit)+140+160= 620% damage.

The odds of 2 spark crits in a row is 4% x 4% = 0.16% thus reducing the odds of instant death significantly. In fact, it's about 25 times less likely.

Misinformed^^^