Death Penalty Changes in 0.11.3

i think cruel modes exp loss if fine.

8% for merciless is too low and that coming from a person who has played for good month b4 lvling due to the death penalty i dont think 15% is right 10-12% sounds good but a issue i feel the game has is randomness. the fact that u can play a good 4hours get like 40% exp then happen to die from an enemy do to something the player did wrong thats not to bad it sucks yea but u still have 25% too feel ok about. now its those moment where u play for 4 hours get 40% happen to die respawn make new instance the lag out a die again. that leaves u with 10% exp in maybe fiv mins vs the four hours you play to get 40% if four hours even givs u 40%. moments like this no matter how much i love this game make me exit out and do something else for a while. and once u get into merciless act3 those moments happen alot more often more so if your biuld is iffy and needs upgrades.


i think if u die and quit to game exit out and chill u should lose the exp hands down u gave up makes sense to me. but for those players that die and just try harder to make up for the loss
those player should be giving a chance to exp some exp back if say they respawn and go kill the monster that kill them this i think promotes ppl to keep playing which is a good thing.

could work like : 12% exp loss in merciless but if u kill the monster that killed you you would receive 5% exp back. now IMO i think that 8% loss fits because u put effort towards it.

i also think bosses should not follow this rule and in pub games it would work but only if u kill that monster that kill you not a party member.

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Oh yeah sure, you can justify it by having a FFA option. But do you even play the game? How many times do you see a public group with FFA on? That's right, never. It's 90% PA, 10% SA.

That should tell you something.

Dont change penalty in cruel..Its already easy enough and even you die in cruel,its not hard to gain exp again..And i think %10 for merciless is good and fair..

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jbd007 wrote:

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vollgas wrote:

This is a great change. I might come back to the game.
At high level, getting killed once is just painful. Especially if you have a 12hr/day job. One death equals countless hours of grinding spread across days. Thank you Chris.

Here's the key you hardcore guys are missing: If they see numbers dropping off from people quitting the game, you hardcore folks can't sustain the game alone. Rant and rave all you want, but you are the minority and GGG wants a game everyone can play. If you are so hardcore, then stay in that league. If not, then play softcore and put you OWN restrictions on .... not "these are restrictions that I think GGG should do".

Like I suggested earlier, if it's such a big deal, add a new Permanent Noob/Wussy/Baby/Easy league that has no death penalty and allows 'casual' people to try the game and work their way up to the more difficult leagues ... kind of like how now you can start to feel good enough to work your way up to Hardcore. If they are the true 'scrubs'/etc that you Comic Book Guys think ruined D3/etc, then they can either leave after trying 'Easy' or they are true fans and will 'upgrade' to a better league. And, of course, no stash tab sharing between leagues still.

But you guys and your elitism is never going to win out over numbers and any company, like GGG, NEEDS numbers to survive. It's the reason some really good shows don't make it on TV. They don't make shows for charity and hardcore players alone can't fund GGG.

Now if you get a Bill Gates-wealthy hardcore player who will fund GGG, then you can ignore the above ......

So if converting all mobs to fluffy, anime-style, pink bunnies will result in an exponential increase of the user base and revenues, does that mean GGG should go for it?

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darkdraithdoom wrote:

What about...

dying to monster A you lose 15% exp -- if you find and kill that monster A you gain half of that exp back, so 7.5%.

If you've died twice to monster A you lose a total of 30% exp -- if you find and kill monster A you gain 15% exp back... etc

So if a monster kills you then they're debuffed. This debuff can stack multiple times which determines how many times you have died to that monster. The debuff duration lasts for several minutes with a 50% return experience. If this debuff wears off you cannot claim any exp that was lost

Maybe, maybe not>?

This is clever as fuck, because it keeps us playing after a death.
However this would not work in a party situation.(as you have described it at least).

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Chris wrote:

The main reason for having a death penalty is so that players aren't able to attrition their way through every fight. We're okay with the strategy of throwing yourself at a boss several times if it's a little too hard for you (which allows us to have pretty challenging mandatory boss fights), but there needs to be a penalty so that this doesn't become a dominant strategy.

This makes no sense for a level 90+ player who can lose days of gameplay through a single death, and this is the real problem with the current death system, and why players abandon their L80+ characters. The “new adjustment” will not help resolve this problem at all, and the key problem is: you don’t steal a normal gamer’s time. If a gamer wants massive risk, they’ll play Hardcore. If you want to prevent them from “abusing” their way through progression, add a mechanic specifically to address that (e.g. the limited portals for a map). Do NOT steal their time, energy, and effort. Until GGG understands this, PoE will have a lot of churn and fail to keep the retention that it could as players will abandon the game because they feel they can’t have fun building their high level characters anymore. That’s why I quit playing my L80+ characters. That’s why a lot of people have quit and will continue to quit.

SOLUTION TO ATTRITION: 0% Penalty, when a player dies, they lose access to all open zones. This includes maps. Forces a reset and player loses progress in that zone.

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Chris wrote:

We (and many of our more hardcore players) are worried that a lower death penalty may reduce the importance of building characters correctly and playing carefully. However, there are hardcore leagues for players who want deaths to be extremely meaningful. The new values do still strongly discourage dying.

It’s now clear why GGG is failing to properly address this issue. Chris makes it apparent GGG believes hardcore players should define (and it looks like have defined) what the standard penalty should be. This is a fundamentally flawed approach and lacks in proper connection relative to the monumental difference between hardcore and standard players. Hardcore is completely different from standard, and for good reason; and as Diablo 3 has shown us (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/9691895/diablo-iii%E2%80%99s-one-year-anniversary-infographic-5-20-2013#best), less than 10% of players are hardcore. While the number might be a little higher for PoE, it’s certainly not a number that should define the gaming experience for all players. So, why do they define the penalty for standard? This is reaffirmed by the numerous people who only play Hardcore who have been commenting in this (and other) threads saying what the penalty should be. Hardcore players have no reason to even be in this discussion. Hardcore and standard are completely different gaming experiences, and should be treated as such.

As long as GGG approaches the death penalty issue basing it on “hardcore principals” there will never be a proper or reasonable solution. Letting Hardcore gamers define the standard penalty is simply absurd.

I don’t play hardcore (I have in the past, but decided not to do it anymore). I like occasionally diving into a tough risky situation that may likely result in my death and blasting myself and the enemy to hell – heck, who doesn’t? But I shouldn't have my effort taken away for engaging in such behavior in a non-HC world. And guess what? The massive majority of players agree, which is why they don’t play Hardcore either! This is why Hardcore caters to a minority of gamers. It does nothing but angers me to see my character lose hours (or days) of gameplay due to a single death, and when I die (L80+) it’s NEVER due to me attempting to progress through attrition. As such, I believe GGG is completely disconnected with the impact of the penalty on non-HC players, a penalty which drives them away. Lowering it from 15% to 8% won’t change this. A L90+ character will now only lose 12 hours of progress vs. 24 for a single death (for example). Players will still be just as pissed and will still quit just as much.

The current system (even with the proposed adjustments) also builds resentment. That’s not good for an online game which survives on micro-transactions. I have no intention of spending any more $ because I am resentful towards the current death penalty mechanic. Why should I give more $ to GGG when I resent the fact they won’t fix a broken mechanic which steals my progress (time, energy and effort) when I make a mistake and die when I'm not even player Hardcore? What about the time I don’t make a mistake and die? (e.g. desynch)

I don’t think GGG understands the real reason the death penalty simply does not work at higher levels. Until they do, and until they realize Standard is not Hardcore, and should not be defined by Hardcore players, simply adjusting the numbers won’t make a difference.

I shared the penalty change announcement with my friends (and wife) who have avoided playing the game due to the death penalty, and their response was unanimous. A laugh with a general “so I’ll only be 8% pissed vs. 15% pissed. No thanks.” I hope GGG understands how many potential players they are driving away through this poor design.

I don't know why hardcore players are complaining about death penalty. GGG isn't changing hardcore rule, they are only making changes in softcore. Yet they are crying like babies!

I think these changes are fine.

Once desync gets fixed then I'd also be fine with raising the xp loss.

If people lose xp because they did something stupid, fine, working as intended.

If people lose xp because the game is broken, not fine. Players will eventually just go somewhere else to play.

Oh and to play a note from Eve-online. OMG POE IS DYING...... Can I have your stuff?

i like these changes, 8% is still a large amount of time when you reach those higher levels!

8% is completely trivial till about level 75'ish.