(Aug 19 NZT) Hardcore No-Party Ladder Race

I dont mind playing solo races even if its boring, but I dont want it to be at the cost of the normal races, can we have these when we start running multiple events per week instead? Solo on its first run still did just as well as a party, and in many cases better, so I dont really see it as excluding solo players from the event because it doesnt appear to be unfair.
Obviously you need more than 1 race to prove that but at this stage all the evidence points to solo and parties having similar levelling speeds.

Solo race was much fun and definitely stops players being carried by their team, which tbh seems to be all to easy to do .

Last weeks race was a good example of what happens when those who usually get CARRIED by their team die... unfortunatly Krips stream showed just how much team play can carry a player who is completely unfamiliar with a class and skills and who wouldnt make lvl 15 with the class in a solo race, but who knows how to follow and avoid being hit and therefore got carried to a class win.


This week Krip proved his mastery of the Marauder by placing 2nd because he is clearly familiar with the class and its playstyle, but last week he got carried to a class win on a shadow by doing nothing more than followin other players around while not having a clue about the class THAT shows the enormous amount Class placings are skewed by teaming.

It was shown the only reason Templar/Ranger/Duelist didnt hit 330k last week was because those players on Krips team died while running off playing superman instead of sticking with their tank, otherwise theyd have also been carried to 330k like Krips shadow was.

If we use this weeks race as an example for pure SOLO play, and last weeks result as a benchmark for how much being CARRIED gets you, anyone being CARRIED to 330k this week would have beaten the "solo" players in 4 of 6 class races in this weeks race.

Id say its very clear that the only pure test of player skill and strategy/build is SOLO play.

Please do more solo races or create weekly solo only events to run simultaneously with the team event.

I bet I know which will be more popular amongst the playerbase.

Although I want more SOLO races (I was 21st overall which isn't so bad, but nowhere near those Gods at the top 5), I agree with Metronomy that they shouldn't come at the expense of normal races.

I believe GGG should automatize these contests, write some nice server code for:

- Winners determined by top % rather than top places.
- Automatic Leagues for Solo HC, Party HC, Solo SC, Party SC, Cut-Throat.

As far as I see, GGG is running these in their weekends, which means there is quite a bit of work on their part to organize them. I am hopeful that GGG will implement automatic League creation server-logic so that they are able to enjoy their weekends and in the same time give us more events such as these.

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I bet I know which will be more popular amongst the playerbase.

This is interesting. We should have a poll.

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Kyliathy wrote:

This is interesting. We should have a poll.

Id rather them code a "Team" league.

Would need to have "pre-entry" coding though and pre-form teams before event start.

Im sure it could be done as its not much different to "guild" experience in other games where your "guild" is capable of leveling up based on player contributions.

The tricky part would be to enforce/limit membership so player deaths and teamwork mattered.


rules..

Teams of 4 or 8 (whatever number GGG decides)

Death is final, no do-overs, if you die you are out, your team continues, just a "man down" and lose that players earning power.

Class composition can be any combination(or could be limited to max of 1-2 of a class per team, example: no more than 2 marauders).

Prizes awarded based on TEAM total EXP, no individual awards.


THAT is a proper format for a "team" league and would be fun for those inclined to for competative teams..


As it stands now "team" play is little more than numbers padding for weaker classes to get an advantage over solo players of the same class.

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Metronomy wrote:

I dont mind playing solo races even if its boring, but I dont want it to be at the cost of the normal races

Agree, why does this have to be an exclusive proposition? Both modes are interesting. I'm sure GGG could simply alternate them?

No need to argue which is best really, they are different.

Sure my melee Ranger could have been carried by a winning team if it comes to that, while I sucked at the solo race, but it's still quite hard to follow a win team. No time too fool around with your inventory and such. So the basic skills of planning, and knowing your class still apply.

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blackadda wrote:

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Kyliathy wrote:

This is interesting. We should have a poll.

Id rather them code a "Team" league.

Would need to have "pre-entry" coding though and pre-form teams before event start.

Im sure it could be done as its not much different to "guild" experience in other games where your "guild" is capable of leveling up based on player contributions.

The tricky part would be to enforce/limit membership so player deaths and teamwork mattered.


rules..

Teams of 4 or 8 (whatever number GGG decides)

Death is final, no do-overs, if you die you are out, your team continues, just a "man down" and lose that players earning power.

Class composition can be any combination(or could be limited to max of 1-2 of a class per team, example: no more than 2 marauders).

Prizes awarded based on TEAM total EXP, no individual awards.


THAT is a proper format for a "team" league and would be fun for those inclined to for competative teams..


As it stands now "team" play is little more than numbers padding for weaker classes to get an advantage over solo players of the same class.

Agree with everything you say. Individual awards for team play doesn't make sense or else every single weak class as a solo will never have a chance against the weak classes carried by their team.

As far as the poll goes, it would be a landslide for solo play. No contest.

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blackadda wrote:

Please do more solo races or create weekly solo only events to run simultaneously with the team event.

Yes, run the team and solo simultaneously. This will separate the two for good.

There are too many ways to abuse the team system against solo players.

For example in a team, 4 players might have comfortable leads with their classes (the weaker classes that don't do as well solo). So to give the other two an advantage, the four with the lead all funnel all their resources, orbs, items to the two and even help with wps and questing to make sure they can get to best spots with the best equips, gems, etc.

How is that even fair for solo players to compete against?

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Metronomy wrote:

I dont mind playing solo races even if its boring, but I dont want it to be at the cost of the normal races, can we have these when we start running multiple events per week instead? Solo on its first run still did just as well as a party, and in many cases better, so I dont really see it as excluding solo players from the event because it doesnt appear to be unfair.
Obviously you need more than 1 race to prove that but at this stage all the evidence points to solo and parties having similar levelling speeds.

Only people that managed to beat last weeks group play of 28 or 27 4/5s, were 4 marauders, (gee who saw the ground slam spam coming that kripp has perfected for the past two weeks)1 shadow Shuuhei mad props did you go bow shadow? Can't forget the witch who leaves 30 minutes early and still gets 6th. So it felt more balanced to me.

yeah . . . last week i looked at the ladder with 30 mins to go and was up by 25% so I just stopped at my 25+. It's hard to simply compare numbers from this week to last and say: "look, they did so much better solo." It depends so much more on how much you should risk and how far ahead you are. I can say for a fact I was absolutely stupid this week for not quitting out at low hp while 3rd on the ladder as a shitty templar. For some reason I thought I could push it and shoot for 29, but had no reason at all to do so. However, with the more competition from marauders, both kripp and barbie HAD to just PUSH HARD and risk, because either of them taking a 5 min break would mean they lost.


EDIT: party vs no party - there's only 2 things that are pure benefit I can see partying. 1) Drop sharing. 2) Quest sharing FOR REQUIRED QUESTS (ie. someone gives you a tp to baleful gem/weaver and you spend the rest of the time grinding what's best xp instead of running to new zones). Actually being in a group IN THE SAME ZONE is NOT a party benefit.

I agree that a well coordinated and synergized party deserves the advantage said coordination and synergy gives.

I disagree that parties deserve the advantage gained from portal cheese (two portals for endless health/mana/flask recharges during boss battles, no progress loss for sloppy play resulting in save and exit, skipping quests then portaling in just to collect quest rewards, carrying terrible players to 1st place finishes etc).

My proposed solution is to limit portal use in events to the player who spawned the portal. This would put groups and soloers on almost entirely even footing as far as game mechanics go, resulting in wins being decided by skill alone (which is the point of a competitive event, after all!).