[1.0.6] CI Crit Dagger Shadow (30k DPS Flicker Ninja) [OB video up!]

ok, well i guess its time i started to look for upgrades, seeing as my dps seems to be way off from the stats posted here xD

i am currently using this:

it was a massive upgrade to my previous dagger, it gave me roughly 2x more dps, and it was cheap (i think) at the time, and that was before the new nodes behind CI were added, it has lasted me from 64 till now, currently 76, and now that i am going into the "physical damage with dagger" nodes i guess thats what i should do as well

as far as i can see from the daggers ive seen in the thread, i should be looking for:

1: flat physical mod
2: % physical mod
3: crit chance if available(mod, not the base daggers chance)

so far those are what i gather, what i would like info on is whats the hierarchy when it comes to the following:

attack speed
crit multi
accuracy
extra ele damage, preferably lightning
int/dex mods
and the dagger base, ie: plats have crit but are slower, demons get a bit more phys and intermediate crit, skeans/slaughters attack speed.. etc

i will put the rest of my gear in a spoiler below for reference, any feedback would be great as i am looking to get a better dagger asap :D

thanks to inva and anamaeus and the rest for the constant support and feedback

That's certainly a nice Plat Kris, averaging 280.5 dps (min+max/2xAS) it's one of the better ones on this thread I've seen.

Yeah, you're gonna wanna aim for IPD%, Physical Damage and Attack speed as your main stats since those seem to influence the overall damage of the dagger the most.


In my experiences I would rank the ideal stats for dagger dps like this

1. IPD% - Gonna make the biggest numbers out multiplying base damage with percentage.
2. Physical Damage added - multiplies into your IPD% and thus is second most important.
3. Attack Speed - Determines your attacks per second, a huge damage amplifier.
4. Accuracy - Damage and speed won't matter if you don't land it.
5. Added Lightning Damage- Second to physical damage but superior to other elements.
6. Crit Multiplier - does more in the dps formula than crit chance.
7. Crit Chance - Helps you crit more often but is useless without the above stats.
8. Elemental Damage(Cold/Fire) - Still useful, but inferior to light dmg cus of Arcing Blows.
9. Added Int/Dex - Useful utility for mana/es or evasion/accuracy. Not a wasted stat but not ideal.

In terms of ranking the types of daggers..

1. Imperial Skean - Has a higher base damage than Plat Kris, and attacks faster but less crit.

2. Platinum Kris - Highest crit chance/multi, equal attack speed to Demon dagger, good avg dmg.

3. Demon Dagger - Highest base damage, less crit multi than Plat kris and is slower than Skean.

4. Ambusher - Has the highest attack speed in the class, but lower min dmg than all but Slaughter Knives.

5. Ezomyte - Same attack speed as Slaughter knife but has more rounded average damage and a slightly higher base crit chance

6. Slaughter - Although it's ranked nearly last it's still better than any other type of dagger not listed here above it because of its basic stats. What hurts it is the innately low minimum damage, though it averages good stats in every other category, with a superior max damage to everything but Platinum Kris & Demon Dagger.

7. Gutting Knife - Good average damage, is hurt by it's slow attack speed more than anything, but does relative good overall.


So that's pretty much it for my opinion on the actual daggers, but if you want base dps values for each they rank up like this according to the PoE Wiki

1. Ambusher (63.2 dps)
2. Imperial Skean / Ezomyte Dagger (Tied at 63 dps)
4. Demon Dagger (62.4 dps)
5. Gutting Knife (61.8 dps)
6. Slaughter Knife (60.9 dps)
7. Platinum Kris (59.4 dps)

"

Anamaeus wrote:

Spoiler

That's certainly a nice Plat Kris, averaging 280.5 dps (min+max/2xAS) it's one of the better ones on this thread I've seen.

Yeah, you're gonna wanna aim for IPD%, Physical Damage and Attack speed as your main stats since those seem to influence the overall damage of the dagger the most.


In my experiences I would rank the ideal stats for dagger dps like this

1. IPD% - Gonna make the biggest numbers out multiplying base damage with percentage.
2. Physical Damage added - multiplies into your IPD% and thus is second most important.
3. Attack Speed - Determines your attacks per second, a huge damage amplifier.
4. Accuracy - Damage and speed won't matter if you don't land it.
5. Added Lightning Damage- Second to physical damage but superior to other elements.
6. Crit Multiplier - does more in the dps formula than crit chance.
7. Crit Chance - Helps you crit more often but is useless without the above stats.
8. Elemental Damage(Cold/Fire) - Still useful, but inferior to light dmg cus of Arcing Blows.
9. Added Int/Dex - Useful utility for mana/es or evasion/accuracy. Not a wasted stat but not ideal.

In terms of ranking the types of daggers..

1. Imperial Skean - Has a higher base damage than Plat Kris, and attacks faster but less crit.

2. Platinum Kris - Highest crit chance/multi, equal attack speed to Demon dagger, good avg dmg.

3. Demon Dagger - Highest base damage, less crit multi than Plat kris and is slower than Skean.

4. Ambusher - Has the highest attack speed in the class, but lower min dmg than all but Slaughter Knives.

5. Ezomyte - Same attack speed as Slaughter knife but has more rounded average damage and a slightly higher base crit chance

6. Slaughter - Although it's ranked nearly last it's still better than any other type of dagger not listed here above it because of its basic stats. What hurts it is the innately low minimum damage, though it averages good stats in every other category, with a superior max damage to everything but Platinum Kris & Demon Dagger.

7. Gutting Knife - Good average damage, is hurt by it's slow attack speed more than anything, but does relative good overall.


So that's pretty much it for my opinion on the actual daggers, but if you want base dps values for each they rank up like this according to the PoE Wiki

1. Ambusher (63.2 dps)
2. Imperial Skean / Ezomyte Dagger (Tied at 63 dps)
4. Demon Dagger (62.4 dps)
5. Gutting Knife (61.8 dps)
6. Slaughter Knife (60.9 dps)
7. Platinum Kris (59.4 dps)

thanks for the feedback, didnt even realize that it had that kind of dps, lol

since you brought dps up, how exactly do i compare dps on my current dagger with a possible upgrade without equiping both and looking at the tooltip on the skills? is it simply multiplying damage by aps? how do i factor in crit rate/multi and passives? apologies in advance as i have never really delved into the technical aspects of the game yet, a simple rough explanation would probably be enough, because i think if we went too deep into the maths id suffer a nosebleed (has never happened before but one can never be too sure ^^ )

as for the dagger preference, i guess ill stay with the platinums and maybe demon daggers, i have always preferred hitting less but hitting harder, and it saves mana too!

and one final question, whats the minimum itemlevel to roll highest possible mods for daggers? of course assuming higher is better, but if there is a cap, id rather not overspend and put in more currency into my skill gems as they are quite lacking atm

once again, thank you for the time you guys take answering these questions, pretty sure we all appreciate the effort

ninja edit: im currently looking at another, i will send you the link if you dont mind :)

Hey, just wanted to stop in and say great guide! But you probably already know that without me having to tell you :D

Even though it wasn't recommended as your first character when you first start POE, I usually play the dagger rogue's/thieves in whatever MMO/ARPG I play, so I knew this build would be something I would enjoy.

75 levels later, it's been a hard road, but definitely a fun one! Without no other characters to gear him with, I managed to put together this set of gear while leveling to 75; I just want to show that's it's definitely possible as a first char, and boy did it pay off:



With 4k Buffed ES at Level 75, I've been able to solo every map I've tried to far, up to the Lvl69 ones. The only real headaches are the Puncture mobs as stated in the guide, haha.

Inner Force plus:

comes out to over 10k armor, and it's been more than enough to facetank everything I've tried so far, (with Bloodrage of course, sometimes Warlord's. I tend to use Crit Weakness curse most of the time unless I know I'm gonna be starved for flask charges.)

Also, I know DW is not recommended for endgame, but I honestly just find Sword & Board to be way too out of character (and lame lol,) for the assasin character I was supposed to be playing.

I also don't mind the challenge of seeing how far into maps I can last without a shield. I have a Double Strike and Viper Strike gem leveled on the side incase I ever do need to switch to 1H+Shield. But I do have to say, Dual Strike DPS is CRAZY, and my crap gear is only 4L max.

I had a couple questions though:

#1) For Lightning Strike, if your mana pool can support it, is it in any way beneficial to run GMP over LMP? When I tried it out, it seemed like GMP cleared mobs faster, I guess since there are more projectiles and therefore more piercing/enemies hit when using quality LS. I could have been imagining things though, as everyone else uses LMP that I've seen.

#2) How do you guys have the mana to run Disc/Hatred/Wrath/Haste? Currently with 700 mana, I can only run 3 out of those 4 auras, (with Mana Reduction gem.) So how do you guys get the mana to do it? Especially since we cannot use Blood Magic, lol.

Anyway, keep up the awesome work you've been doing for the Shadow forum!

To figure out what an average dps of the weapon is I use the formula of adding Minimum+Maximum damage, dividing it by 2 because you've got two ends of the spectrum, then multiplying it by it's attack speed.



So this dagger for example would go like 81+322 = 403 / 2 = 201.5 x 1.65 = 332.475

Rounded up it has an average DPS of 332.5


So without knowing how to factor in Accuracy, Crit chance/multi it's harder to discern if something is a true upgrade, but you can use that formula to get a rough estimation on what the average damage per second from that weapon should be, generally if something is 50 points higher than your current weapon you'll see a pretty noticeable spike in your overall damage through skills.

"

Kirarik wrote:

#1) For Lightning Strike, if your mana pool can support it, is it in any way beneficial to run GMP over LMP? When I tried it out, it seemed like GMP cleared mobs faster, I guess since there are more projectiles and therefore more piercing/enemies hit when using quality LS. I could have been imagining things though, as everyone else uses LMP that I've seen.

#2) How do you guys have the mana to run Disc/Hatred/Wrath/Haste? Currently with 700 mana, I can only run 3 out of those 4 auras, (with Mana Reduction gem.) So how do you guys get the mana to do it? Especially since we cannot use Blood Magic, lol.

Anyway, keep up the awesome work you've been doing for the Shadow forum!

@ #1 - The damage draw back on GMP is larger than from LMP, and though they are virtually the same aside from the mana cost & additional projectiles I feel it's sort of overkill to go the GMP route, a 20% lightning strike gem with LMP has 5 bolts that pierce @60% of the time. Your mana pool is limited as it is. You're upping the cost of your skill by 50% more using GMP over LMP and doing 20% less damage per projectile.
@#2 - Some people run two sets of aura combos, using reduced mana on both combos in order to achieve this. I personally only run Hatred & Discipline with a reduced mana gem in my shield simply because when mapping in a 6 man team we have an abundance of auras.

"

mythrin wrote:

I have a similarly planned build. But I was planning to take Iron Reflexes. Would getting Iron Reflexes be worth the trouble of getting?

Not really worth in my opinion, you'd be better off having that degree of Evasion on the gear you can and using a Granite flask to supply your base of armor, more kinds of defense is better than fewer imo.

I have a similarly planned build. But I was planning to take Iron Reflexes. Would getting Iron Reflexes be worth the trouble of getting?

At around level 67

i vote to add that into the OP :D

once again, anamaeus to the rescue

@kirarik even with 789 mana, i cant reliably run all 4, i am left with 138 mp, and since my reduced mana gems are both only lvl 18, that might be a factor too

"

swizzleigh wrote:

i vote to add that into the OP :D

once again, anamaeus to the rescue

@kirarik even with 789 mana, i cant reliably run all 4, i am left with 138 mp, and since my reduced mana gems are both only lvl 18, that might be a factor too

how much mana leech do you have and your ls costs?

"

swizzleigh wrote:

@kirarik even with 789 mana, i cant reliably run all 4, i am left with 138 mp, and since my reduced mana gems are both only lvl 18, that might be a factor too

3 auras is what most people use, that only takes 1 reduced mana and can be used in your helm, which if your lucky is Alpha Howl. Otherwise any ES/EV helm is good. You don't need 4 auras.

"

3 auras is what most people use, that only takes 1 reduced mana and can be used in your helm, which if your lucky is Alpha Howl. Otherwise any ES/EV helm is good. You don't need 4 auras.

Ah ok, that makes sense. So obviously we run Discipline as one of our three, now for end-game mapping what are the best other two to run?

I'm guessing some combination of Wrath, Hatred, and Haste; I personally run Discipline, Haste, and Hatred, because I feel the IAS and Movespeed from Haste is just gravy, along with Hatred scaling better DPS-wise than Wrath for me at least.

What are everyone else's opinions on this?