Needs more Richard Kimble: How PoE (Almost) Completely Fails to Deliver on Narrative
" Limbo has absolutely no in game directive or narrative. I don't see how solving puzzles, and getting attacked by a spider/few people that have no backstory whatsoever, can qualify as a narrative. The only real story elements in the game is seeing a little girl at the beginning and end of the game who is your sister that you have been searching for in Limbo. But if you just picked up and started playing the game you would have no idea that she was your sister and that you were searching for her. You have to actually read about the game in the description or on the internet to even know that. Limbo is 100% about the game play and atmosphere. The story is virtually not there. Standard Forever
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" This^ Also Mass Effect turned into less of a RPG and more of a fucking interactive movie (ME3 anyway). With a horrible ending at that. I'd prefer gameplay, thanks. Story-driven rpgs have their place, online arpg is not one of those. If I want to get into story, I want my decisions to have some weight on game world, I want to feel I'm driving the story not the other way around, replayability based on the development (Planescape:Torment, Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate). It's a totally different experience and something completely wasted on this genre. How much would narrative matter in a game that 1. you have to rerun 3 times to begin with 2. counts on ladder resets/races/leagues and multiple alts/build options as replayability? 99.99% of the people playing it will ESC/skip dialogs like everywhere else, it's a wasted effort better spent elsewhere. And one would just have to take a quick glance at TOR to see what happens with putting too much effort into it. It's something you 'might' notice on first run through but not something that will make game's longevity here. Or should we be satisfied with 'wow what a great story' beating normal and uninstalling? Simply way more important things to do in a game like this to bother much. Slap something in, make it look polished for the heck of it and leave it at that. |
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" When did it become acceptable to submit "sparse" in place of "absolutely none"? And there is a reason why that small amount of narrative uses family; using the minimum amount of time and effort, they convey a pretty strong narrative using that technique. And that's the real allure of Limbo's narrative: not that it doesn't exist, but that it maintains very high standards for efficacy, to the point of cutting virtually all non-gameplay narrative. " I agree that online ARPGs like the Diablo series and PoE are not story-driven; narrative is not a core aesthetic. However, that doesn't mean they are unimportant. Actually, the narrative, especially when you break away from plot-for-plot's-sake and focus on themes and mood, can set up an emotional framework for how people grind, which makes it at least relevant, if not important. I can agree that this isn't something GGG should break their back improving. Perhaps a Javert-style character (yes, I get that the Exile apparently isn't being chased, but maybe this guy has his own reasons for chasing him) isn't an appropriate thing to slip into the current plot (although he might make for some interesting Act 4+ material), because the development cost would be too high. Totally understand that one. However, the small touches -- such as making Grust reject selling to you -- are probably cheaper to implement and worth the expense. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jun 4, 2013, 1:45:33 AM
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" I agree with this. The theme change in Lunaris, for example, adds a lot to the game. |
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"And that's a great example of a temporary theme/mood change, but I'm focusing a little more here on overall, game-wide theme and mood. I guess there are two methodologies there: a series of Lunaris Temples, each individually interesting for its own reasons but sharing certain commonalities in theme; and overarching plans that permeate the entire game to instill particular themes or moods. I guess both are valid choices; a combination of both is probably best. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jun 4, 2013, 2:07:10 AM
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Hi all,
First up, thank you all for getting so worked up about the PoE Story. I hear, so often, that story in an ARPG simply isn't important. That we don't need to care about it. Well...it's my job to care :-) So I'm not going to go back over the many points that have already been thrashed to flaying point through the discussions. I'm simply going to tell you what I intend to do (or have already done) and let you decide if it's the right direction or not. 1. Piety I've given Piety's dialogue and story glyphs a complete revamp (with the Damien's help) so that Piety will soon respond in a way that is tailormade to the character classes. And yes, she knows of and has even met some of the player characters back in Oriath. I'll let you find out who in due course. As part of this revamp, I've gotten to know Piety a whole lot better and she's been kind enough to reveal to me her deepest, darkest fears and motivations. She's just as human as the next girl despite the tendency to express her feelings and ambitions in rather 'grand' ways. Now, as you interact with Piety using different Character Classes, you'll hopefully build up a clear picture of who she is and why she does what she does. 2. Player Character as Protagonist I'm taking the view that the PC is a Character, not an Avatar...something I explain more fully in this article... http://thefictionengine.com/2013/05/should-a-player-character-speak/ For instance, the Witch isn't a simple embodiment of her player in Wraeclast, a mere husk to fill with player agency. The Witch is a character that the player is 'helping' to survive and grow. Therefore, she should have some thoughts and feelings about her time in Exile. To this end, I intend to write narrations for each Player Character that will display their character development during the course of their time in Wraeclast. Through these narrations you will hear how your Player Character struggles and grows as a person in this hostile environment. 3. Story through Mechanics This, to be honest, is a tough one. Because PoE is a multi-player world that is instanced for each player, it's complicated to institute world changes. That said, I'm looking into creating situations where you CAN see the consequences of a PC's actions as to how they effect encampment NPCs. We've seen Helena pop up in the Act 2 Encampment after her rescue from the Chamber of Sins and we've seen Clarissa do the same in Act 3. I think we can make the encampments more dynamic, with NPCs coming, going and permanently changing their attitudes as a direct result of PC actions. Watch this space :-) 4. Lore Yes, we're instituting quite a few more story glyphs (like the Shavronne's Tome in Axiom Prison) to enable players to piece together the puzzle that is Wraeclast. What happened to it and why? And I only intend to include lore that will, in some way, contribute to your understanding of what happens WITHIN the game. There will be no history purely for 'interest's' sake. I hope this clears a few things up, or at least puts you in the picture of where the PoE story is headed. Edwin Edwin McRae
Narrative Designer http://edmcrae.com |
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" For me Limbo didn't have a narrative. a good story can't really succeed in a game if it doesn't ever tell you why your there or what your goals are supposed to be. A couple things happen and your just supposed to fill in the blanks yourself. Not saying that wrong, but thats definitely not a way to actually tell a story. Even me, the guy who doesn't usually pay attention to narrative at all thought that they could have started limbo with just a couple lines when the boy wakes up such as "A young boy wakes up in a strange world. He must find his sister who is lost....". I brought it up because its a game that succeeded as a game. People love it, it broke sales records and won awards, and it did that with no real in game narrative at all. Its charm was in its alluring gameplay, environment, lack of any hand holding. Standard Forever Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Jun 4, 2013, 7:24:43 AM
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" It would be cool if something the Exile has to do (or does unintensionally ) alienates one of the NPC characters in an encampment making him leave the encampment and engaging the Exile in combat later down the road. “Demons run when a good man goes to war" Last edited by Sneakypaw#3052 on Jun 4, 2013, 3:36:20 AM
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" This is the way to go. I currently play a MMO called Scarlet Blade (yeah, shame on me) just because of the Character - Player relation embodied there. You don't just play an Avatar. You help your character survive in an hostile environment, even have conversations with him. First time seeing that game, I didn't want to give it a chance because of the horrible marketing (boobs2w) but after giving it a try and seeing this immersible setting and player interaction (not gameplay one, its horrible) I got addicted to it. Despite that, the writing is also not the best. But the setting and the Character interaction they make everything alright again. I am still confused that only that was able to bound me considering the bad character individualization, gameplay and that ridiculous emphasizing of female genitalia. Sorry for the semi-offtopic here. It is awesome to have such a full fledged story and lore discussion in this forum. " Reminds me of Dark Souls where several character go rogue after a certain point in the game. I loved it and it was disturbingly affecting me. Last edited by Nightmare90#4217 on Jun 4, 2013, 3:52:52 AM
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" Yep, kinda like DS. They already have Rogue Exiles planned. They could turn them into those and they drop a lot of loot. They could even make them random like the legendary pokemon that appear somewhere in the world. For example: You turn off the sun -> the chick you saved in sins becomes the only merchant because she still trusts you because you saved her -> one of the other merchants leaves town - > this NPC becomes an random Rogue Exile that can appear 1 time while you are playing and after you kill him you get the same loot like the Rogue Exiles in the anarchy league. “Demons run when a good man goes to war"
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