Feedback and Suggestions (Path of Exile 1) - Needs more Richard Kimble: How PoE (Almost) Completely Fails to Deliver on Narrative - Forum

It's interesting to see the support for this thread, but I just don't think the payoff is going to be there even if there's a strong follow-through on this. Adding some more NPCs and revamping others to reduce the sense of welcoming trust is ultimately going to be a futile endeavor. Towns are just not significant enough to be a strong part of the narrative. There is a recent fondness for separating story from narrative where gameplay actions are part of the narrative but not the story. Let's explore that a little bit. What are the gameplay functions of the town? To refuel potions, sell and trade items (ie. generate wealth), provide respite from combat, and claim quest rewards. One thing all those gameplay actions have in common is that they're all positive actions. To then turn around and make the townsfolk mistrust you / hate your guts / etc. would be inconsistent. I'm not saying the game couldn't be more atmospheric, but changing the narrative is not a modest endeavor. The gameplay story that is told by POE is that of an outcast who starts with nothing and over time becomes a powerful warrior who can defeat challenges far beyond that of an average person. The thematic story of an outcast who is untrustworthy and running from those who hunt him doesn't have much overlap with the gameplay's story. The gameplay is ultimately about giving a sense of empowerment, but the chosen story is one about creating a sense of fear. Those two things simply don't mix.	Posted by PolarisOrbit#5098 on Jun 4, 2013, 9:30:13 PM Quote this Post
A very relevant article over at the Escapist: In Defense of Silent Protagonists. " Having a voiced protagonist also creates frustrations for me when my character's goals are at odds with my own. In Half-Life 2, when Alyx wants to go rescue her father Eli, the game doesn't have Gordon say why he's helping her. (The game is almost a decade old so I don't want to hear any whining about spoilers here.) Is it because he's in love with Alyx? Because he likes Eli? Because he thinks Eli is crucial to the resistance? Because he wants to kill a ton of Combine forces and this seems like a good excuse? Some of those make sense to me. Some of them strike me as being very wrong or out-of-character. Another player might have a completely different justification for doing the rescue. With voiceless Gordon, we're all free to inject our own reasoning. If the writers told us YOU ARE ONLY DOING THIS BECAUSE YOU'RE IN LOVE WITH ALYX, then for a lot of people Gordon comes off like a dunce who can't see the big picture. Now, you might want to solve this by giving the player a little dialog tree. Just let them express why they're doing the thing they're doing. That's fine, but with the ability to make choices comes the desire for consequences. Players will get frustrated that the game gives them half a dozen things to say about Eli, and none of them are, "Screw that guy, let's go to the beach." The player will ask, "If my opinion doesn't matter, then why did you ask me?" The expectations created by the dialog tree will pull you away from a linear shooter and towards an Obsidian or BioWare-style RPG. And suddenly you're designing a very different kind of game with different design parameters. This is what I was trying to say earlier; yes, I want the game to have a narrative, but like my example from Diablo 2 I'd like it to be one of contrast, where the actions of the world say something about the Exile, rather than the Exile saying it him/herself (although sometimes the Exile speaks through action, as Gordon does). And PoE is not Mass Effect. " PolarisOrbit wrote: There is a recent fondness for separating story from narrative where gameplay actions are part of the narrative but not the story. Let's explore that a little bit. What are the gameplay functions of the town? To refuel potions, sell and trade items (ie. generate wealth), provide respite from combat, and claim quest rewards. One thing all those gameplay actions have in common is that they're all positive actions. To then turn around and make the townsfolk mistrust you / hate your guts / etc. would be inconsistent. Not everyone in town needs to hate you. What I feel is important is that someone does; the ones who like you (or dislike you the least) can provide you with the needed services. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jun 5, 2013, 12:10:57 AM	Posted by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jun 4, 2013, 11:59:18 PM Quote this Post
That's what I call a nice thread : ) First of all I was the kind of player that skips all dialogues in game. I was doing this because I got used to after having played many MMO's with no story at all. But I've realized PoE is different. Now i'm really enjoying this game's story. I love the characters, the atmosphere, the plot and even Piety S2. Edwin, I didn't knew it was you the guy working on PoE's story. Nice to meet you, i'm really apreciating your job! " Edwin_GGG wrote: First up, thank you all for getting so worked up about the PoE Story. I hear, so often, that story in an ARPG simply isn't important. That we don't need to care about it. That's what I thought so. But your job is increasing very much the game's atmosphere. Please keep on the good work. " Edwin_GGG wrote: I'm taking the view that the PC is a Character, not an Avatar...something I explain more fully in this article... http://thefictionengine.com/2013/05/should-a-player-character-speak/ For instance, the Witch isn't a simple embodiment of her player in Wraeclast, a mere husk to fill with player agency. The Witch is a character that the player is 'helping' to survive and grow. Therefore, she should have some thoughts and feelings about her time in Exile. To this end, I intend to write narrations for each Player Character that will display their character development during the course of their time in Wraeclast. Through these narrations you will hear how your Player Character struggles and grows as a person in this hostile environment. I would love to see this implemented but I have a different view of the PC's than just Characters like the NPC's. I like to think that there's no <Witch> character but a <YourChosenName> witch that differs in personality and entity from the other playable witches. I like how we don't really know what the PC's have done to be there because this brings some individuality between my witch and the others. So I would like to ask you to keep this mistery a little to make us feel our own characters thoughts flowing withing the story. " Edwin_GGG wrote: Yes, we're instituting quite a few more story glyphs (like the Shavronne's Tome in Axiom Prison) to enable players to piece together the puzzle that is Wraeclast. What happened to it and why? And I only intend to include lore that will, in some way, contribute to your understanding of what happens WITHIN the game. There will be no history purely for 'interest's' sake. Great! I'd love to know more about the Karui, vaal and atziri, Maligaro, Kaom, Shavronne, Marceus Lioneye, Asenath, Geofri and so on! My characters thank you in advance!	Posted by KieranGravebane#7509 on Jun 5, 2013, 12:43:40 AM Quote this Post
Updated sections 2, 5 and 6 with a bunch of additional content and edits; some of these original thoughts on my part, much of it based on feedback from replies thus far. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.	Posted by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jun 5, 2013, 3:47:09 AM Quote this Post
" TheDudeOfGaming wrote: Not the long arm of justice, but the long arm of vengeance. Spoiler And I really like the idea of having someone from Oriath coming after you. You've already been sentenced, but perhaps it can be someone who you've wronged in the past or wronged their loved one in some way. Consumed with a desire for vengeance they freely choose to go to a desolate Island filled with exiles many of whom have committed terrible crimes (among other horrors) just so they can kill you. I really don't like this idea. It seems that being banished to Wraeclast is tantamount to being sentenced to death, because it is hard to survive with all them monsters, undead and whatnots. I cannot imagine anyone following to Wraeclast just to make sure the person dies. Chances are too high that you die yourself. Yeah, ok, it could be another exile you meet. You recognize each other, fight, other flees, you meet again et sic deinceps until you meet in a final battle. Hm... doesn't sound that bad now. Bird lover of Wraeclast Las estrellas te iluminan - Hoy te sirven de guía Te sientes tan fuerte que piensas - que nadie te puede tocar	Posted by Mikrotherion#4706 on Jun 5, 2013, 12:40:22 PM Quote this Post
" ScrotieMcB wrote: GGG, I don't want to give you guys the impression I hate your game. In terms of gameplay mechanics -- the skill tree, skill gems -- it's truly inspired, a work of combination-y genius. <much snippage> However, the narrative is rotten, and we all know it. Comments? I wouldn't say the narrative is bad at all, it's just skimpy ... so far. I expect that as the game continues to develop, so will the clues and hints of what has happened. While I enjoy a good story, when it's an interactive game, I think there needs to be some breathing room for the player to express themselves. There is also the aspect that for some players too much dialogue is just more clutter getting between them and adventuring. There are six character slots currently, but at least 17 letters of exile, so the 6 are not the only exiles, and it wouldn't make sense for them to be the only ones of their kind. An instance with 3 marauders and 2 rangers is an example of why a specific class being a specific character only doesn't really work for game immersion. I would like to see more lore, and more interest from the NPCs in the development of certain quests as the player completes OR fails them. (The bandit dialogue is a good example of this). The NPCs refusing to sell during the darkness would have been an awesome example of it. One other way GGG could add to the immersion would be custom letters of exile - A cosmetic effect - like a custom avatar that is also achievement based, in that you had to earn it through some very difficult and time consuming effort. The letter of exile for Sir_Stinxalot could have: "Three counts of flatulence in the general direction of a church official." "Two counts of arson through igniting noxious personal vapors." "Five counts of gluttony in excessive consumption of beans." PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910	Posted by DalaiLama#6738 on Jun 7, 2013, 12:20:11 AM Quote this Post