Needs more Richard Kimble: How PoE (Almost) Completely Fails to Deliver on Narrative

I would bet my stash that a majority of the playerbase has only heard the 1st 2 words of the added dialogues before skipping them.

BTW, PlaceholderText = Scorite on his cell

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Charan wrote:

you asked.

I couldnt give two shits about the loot, which is why I ignored what you said initially.

slightly insulted that you did not find my reply polite, if not insightful.

maybe next time, if there is one, I will reply on my phone as I am now. Each word takes forever and I would be done after a few sentences.

Please don't accuse me of projecting when I am not the one trying to turn the game into The Fugiconables.

you asked, I responded. gonna leave it at that.

Oh noes! I hurt Charan's feelings!

And no, I'm not being sarcastic. Really. It takes all the fun out of Wall of Text Battle.

Even if I disagree with a lot of it... your ideas are challenging enough where even rejecting them is a learning experience, one that requires the ideas you had to adapt and become more fully formed to meet that challenge. You contributed to the thread; it wasn't a waste of time. Plus, I'm not the sole judge of merit anyway.

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bredin wrote:

Only good narrative really ever delivers on "wow moments" especially when those moments are delivered through subtle mechanics: think of the realisation that Tyler is the Narrator (Fight Club) or that Sapphire and Steel arent actually the good guys or that wonderful disconnect at the end of Full Metal Jacket with the victorious Marines singing the theme to the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse.

If your going to use comparisons like that then please use video games since we all know movies are a completely different beast than a video game. I suspect that in a movie far more people care about a good story than they would in a video game.

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bredin wrote:

When I think about games I used to play, I can only remember the stories or narratives: I know Call of Duty 4 had awesome gameplay, but what I remember is the way it delievered its intro and how the heroes commit a war crime in one of the cut scenes, that the story never even attempted to justify this, other than merely implying 'the ends justifies the means.'

Then your a completely different kind of gamer than I am. My favorite gaming memories are almost always from the gameplay. I can't tell you any of the story in Call of Duty 4 and very little from Halo, and I have played every halo game all the way through and most of them multiple times!

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bredin wrote:

I agree with Scrote that FFA loot adds to the narrative. I wont go into why I think its unpopular, it would only upset people.

Since you think it would upset people then I have already heard what you would say many times from various other FFA supporters.

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bredin wrote:

Good Mechanics + Bad Narrative = D3

Definitely NOT (IMO). There was a lot more wrong with D3 than just the narrative!

Good combat + Bad Mechanics + Bad itemization + Bad customization + Boring gameplay = D3

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

A game without narrative is Microsoft Office.

You mean like Limbo? One of my favorite video games of all time and also one of the best selling XBLA games of all time?

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PlaceholderText wrote:

BTW, PlaceholderText = Scorite on his cell

I've slept on it, so to speak, and my sentiments haven't changed. Your answers were by and large not worthy of the effort I put in. It's a bit like being invited to take part in a symposium by someone you respect, pulling out all the stops and then, after giving your paper, being poorly challenged not by some snide outsider eager to make their mark but by the very person who invited you.

I wouldn't be so quick to respond to any future invitations from such an individual.

My response, and arguably this thread, is academic in spirit if not rigour. Like lethal said, most of the players probably have no clue what the story is about and likely don't care. Should that be the case, I'd say my belief that the narrative is just something to hang a game system off is closer to the truth than any belief that it is what actually 'drives' the game.

Argh, screw it. Not like I have anything better to do. I'll respond more thoroughly to your response, but please understand that I have no intention of turning this into a debate. It was never my desire to 'sway' you, because my first answer was as I see things. Nothing more. This is why I felt your responses were, by and large, unnecessarily dismissive, and just a little smarmy.

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iamstryker wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

A game without narrative is Microsoft Office.

You mean like Limbo? One of my favorite video games of all time and also one of the best selling XBLA games of all time?

Narrative is not only what's explicitly written. I don't think many would agree with you that Limbo doesn't have a narrative. If it tells a story, it has a narrative. Do you think Simon's Cat also doesn't have a narrative?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The only thing is that some of us don't care

I admit to committing that crime. :)

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Rhys wrote:

You might be interested to know that we are planning to revamp Piety a bit, giving her personalized dialogue for each character class, and having the player characters talk back (a little; there often isn't much time though).

I hope that the dialog will go away with an Escape key, as I do with all the dialogs, and won't involve making any meaningless choices resulting in even more clicking. It breaks my flow. ;)

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lethal_papercut wrote:

I would bet my stash that a majority of the playerbase has only heard the 1st 2 words of the added dialogues before skipping them.

That's right. It's enough for me to hear it once. Additionally, every time Greust (a weapon vendor in Forrest Encampment) says "WHAT?!", I want to punch him in the nose, really, really hard. I would even buy microstranaction which would shut this annoying lout up. lol

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Bhaya wrote:

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Rhys wrote:

You might be interested to know that we are planning to revamp Piety a bit, giving her personalized dialogue for each character class, and having the player characters talk back (a little; there often isn't much time though).

I hope that the dialog will go away with an Escape key, as I do with all the dialogs, and won't involve making any meaningless choices resulting in even more clicking. It breaks my flow. ;)

As long as it doesn't end up with Piety's head appearing in the top lefft of the screen every so often to willfully tell us her 'secrets of war' and how 'there is no way we are going to get past her hidden passage guarded by her most elite military' we should be alright.