Needs more Richard Kimble: How PoE (Almost) Completely Fails to Deliver on Narrative
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Because I think there's some confusion that I'm thinking of the Exile as a somewhat typical hero -- and I'm not...
This text has been added to the OP in Section 2: The point I'm making here is not about the Exile's motivations; those are his own (and sometimes yours). The point is in how he is treated by others. Guilty until proven innocent. " On the one hand, my reasoning for wanting FFA loot is based almost entirely on its use as a narrative mechanic. I totally understand that it is a pain in the ass; I believe it's still worth it because it tells a story. Thus, totally on topic, and I probably won't get another thread to discuss my reasoning within a proper framework. On the other hand, I think making "dead baby" zombie pets available as microtransactions might be better received than what I was proposing. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" Ok, I don't think looting should be part of the narrative. If for no other reason, then because narrative should be as available in single player as in multiplayer. Narrative in Diablo 1 and 2 was not better in multiplayer. |
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"Kids, this is how you do a polite, insightful reply that leads to meaningful discussion. I just want to point out that it's possible. In any case, that's actually a very good point I haven't considered. Not sure if it changes my mind, however; I'll have to sleep on it. Or something. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" Yep. And slo-mo fight scenes > Story. No, wait... the other thing. 300 (eg) managed to take a fantastic story of heroism, bravery and integrity (the Battle of Thermopylae) and fuck it with stupid attempts at awesome coolness, leaving the viewer wondering exactly what the cg team were going to trot out next (yawn). Only good narrative really ever delivers on "wow moments" especially when those moments are delivered through subtle mechanics: think of the realisation that Tyler is the Narrator (Fight Club) or that Sapphire and Steel arent actually the good guys or that wonderful disconnect at the end of Full Metal Jacket with the victorious Marines singing the theme to the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. Without the context of story, all these events would have little to no impact. D3's combat is nice, even with shit latency. I had given up on the story by the time Cain died. Cain was a crap story advancement device from day 1: I have always hated being lead around by the nose in any game, RPGs even worse, since this device removes the most important aspect of RPG's - choice of action. "Go here, do this, kill that.." I just felt like Cains Bitch. As a result Im glad he died. It got me out from under. When I think about games I used to play, I can only remember the stories or narratives: I know Call of Duty 4 had awesome gameplay, but what I remember is the way it delievered its intro and how the heroes commit a war crime in one of the cut scenes, that the story never even attempted to justify this, other than merely implying 'the ends justifies the means.' I agree with Scrote that FFA loot adds to the narrative. I wont go into why I think its unpopular, it would only upset people. It felt like a massive disconnect the first time I want back to the forest encampment having broken the seal and made the world dark: I got a serve from Gruest, he was obviously pissed at me. Did it affect my ability to trade with him? no. the fact that the NPCs were pissed with me made no difference to my gameplay. It almost certainly should: it would reinforce that displeasure. Imagine if you finished the white beast quest after this event (but before killing vaal) and seeing the interaction with [wassername] changing to "take this and get away from me, assclown" brusqueness. or with Earamir if you get the apex from him, or even from the bandit you make a deal with. (Yes Im aware of the cost of alternative, non-linear story elements). I will note, however, that is is very possible to ruin a good narrative with irritating mechanics. B. tl;dr Good Mechanics + Bad Narrative = D3 The Preceding message contains discretion.
Viewer nudity is advised. |
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One way to look at it is that the story they set up in the first 30 seconds (that of an untrustworthy exile) should be carried out and executed into the rest of the gameplay.
Another way to look at it is that the story told by the gameplay itself should be reflected in the plot (that of a lone wanderer killing tons of crap and getting much stronger). I would have to favor the latter approach. I don't see any realistic way of presenting the character as an untrustworthy fugitive when the concept behind the game is loot and experience grinding vicious monsters to get powerful gear. The tension between the story and the gameplay is too much, one of them has to give for the sake of the other. The narrative should follow the gameplay rather than the story because the gameplay cannot be compromised, but the story can be compromised. So TC suggests the gameplay be modified to match the story's narrative. I would suggest the story be modified to match gameplay's narrative. Last edited by PolarisOrbit#5098 on Jun 3, 2013, 9:46:41 AM
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" D3 was definitely a "wow moment" for me on the first playthrough, even though I found the story and narrative laughable. The combat and skill system is just absolutely brilliant IMO. So I agree with iamstryker that gameplay > story. Just adding another perspective. |
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" Suggestion for narrative purposes. Make it so the female soldier you saved from sins sells stuff instead of gruest during the darkness. Give her a simple dialog saying she will help you since you saved her and just give her gruests vendor details during that event. (you would also have to give gruest a dialog that inferred someone else would sell to them but mentioning he wont sell to you due to your actions. |
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I played D2 for like 10 years, I can tell you I have no idea what the story was about except killing demons.
I have no idea what the story of PoE is except kill anyone who gets in your way to finding lootz ;) S L O W E R
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you asked.
I couldnt give two shits about the loot, which is why I ignored what you said initially. slightly insulted that you did not find my reply polite, if not insightful. maybe next time, if there is one, I will reply on my phone as I am now. Each word takes forever and I would be done after a few sentences. Please don't accuse me of projecting when I am not the one trying to turn the game into The Fugiconables. you asked, I responded. gonna leave it at that. Account sharing/boosting is a bannable offence. No ifs, ands, or buts. No exceptions. Not even for billionaires.
Post this sentiment publicly and see how long it lasts here. |
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Another thing I would add, my expectation is that the reasoning behind the Exile thing is to minimize the story, not to set the foundation for the story.
Having a hidden past is superficially like amnesia in that the things the character knows and the things the player knows are the same-- nothing. The difference is the lack of mystery. No one cares who you were, it's not something we're going to explore as we progress through the game, so stop asking about it already! I do not think GGG was trying to make Exiles some deep and complex narrative, but instead the opposite. They were trying to justify why the game does not spend much effort developing these things. The characters don't care so the player shouldn't either. Atmosphere is different, of course. |
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