Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.
" I personally will keep being myself. So, you might as well deal with it and get used to it. Last edited by Vooodu#7002 on Jun 21, 2013, 11:27:32 AM
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Congratz Vooodu I think you just won the "Self important deush of the year award" Can ban me or whatever but I get soooooo tired of all the forums being full of these people who try to articulate the best insults to make it seem as if they weren't being rude. Whatever man call it what you will you are a just a rude self-important internet troll. Do us all a favor and get over yourself so that I can actually read something productive every once and awhile. No wonder Charan hung up his mod coat for the time being.
Last edited by Killurself#3025 on Jun 21, 2013, 12:21:09 PM
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" You are the only one here who offends people soley because of what side of the argument they are. You even admit to making stupid posts. So when someone questions your intelligence, do you think it's becasue you make stupid posts or because you "like FFA"? " You set the tone in this thread. You turned it into a mudslinging troll fest. However, you are probably the one person in this thread that is most responible for making the devs change their minds. How does that make you feel? |
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" Welcome to the to the club. You can have a seat with the HUGE number of like 4 people who agree with you about the slop of garbage you just posted. Have fun... " Are you done complaining about me yet? I mean at what point do you think im going to care about what you think about me? Everytime you post anything toward me I laugh. Even a cow bumping up against an electric fence learns his lesson. But you're posts are funny. I love the comment "You are the only one here who offends people soley because of what side of the argument they are on" Funny thing is im looking at a few posts now with you doing exactly what you say I do. ....lmao. Hypocrite much? " Well, honestly I think your're just full of crap and looking for anyway you can to get a rise out of me. Pretty much... Last edited by Vooodu#7002 on Jun 21, 2013, 3:52:47 PM
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Imagine with me for a moment. Imagine that loot options weren't something you selected out of three constricting choices, but something the game automatically did, fitting you with players which matched your loot tension playstyle.
Let's say the game allocates loot by name, but doesn't enforce it at all; so things essentially drop FFA, but the name of the fair recipient is always attached. (Perhaps a short timer is added, but it shouldn't interfere with the pace of play.) The game keeps track of two metrics for each character (not account), both of only grow with time. Whenever something drops with someone else's name on it, the first metric is incremented; the amount of increment is based on the probability of the drop (for example, if there's a 1% chance to drop Occultist's Vestment, a 1% chance of it being unique, and a 1% chance of being 5L, a 5L Shavronne's is worth 100^3=a million points here). The second metric only goes up when you take something that isn't allocated to you, using the exact same point system. The game then uses these to form a ratio -- essentially what value of loot you take from other players, a kind of loot tension score.
Potentially Boring Math Details
Let's say we have some players who always try to get every single item (pure FFA mentality), and have equal accessibility to all items that drop (equal FFA opportunity). For two players, we'd get a stolen/dropped value of 1/2; three players, 1/3, and so on. This isn't good, because it means someone with a value of 1/6 would mean very different things depending on whether he used to play in two-player or six-player parties. So what we do is multiply the drop (not the steal, just the drop) by 6/players, giving us 1/6 for pure FFA for each. This means you'll never max out your evil just leeching off of only one person, but that's actually an accurate representation of things.
Still, it puts us in a situation where 6/6 is the maximum possible score, but 1/6 is still plenty evil. The solution to this is to apply a strong root function to the ratio; the exact value is kind of hard to specify, but let's say we use x^0.2 to visually plot the results in-game from 0 (least FFA) to 1 (most FFA). 1/3 (elite ninja) becomes 0.80 -- getting to the extreme edges is insanely hard 1/6 (standard pure FFA player) becomes 0.70 1/32 (ninjas just under 20% as much as pure FFA player) becomes 0.5 -- pure ambivalence 1/60 (ninjas 10% as much as pure FFA player) becomes 0.44 -- pretty morally neutral but a good guy 1/600 (ninjas 1% as much as pure FFA player) becomes 0.28 -- a good guy, but even minor indiscretion is noted 1/6000 (ninjas 0.1% as much as pure FFA player) becomes 0.18 -- getting to the extreme edges is insanely hard here too Note that it's by character, not by account. If you want to make a character "good" who always uses the suggested allocation, then reroll as a "bad guy" who ninjas all the time, that kind of roleplay is supported. End result? The best of both worlds. You'll be able to quickly and easily find players with a proven track record of non-ninja behavior, assuming that you too have a proven track record of non-ninja behavior. But even in those groups, some threat of loot tension will exist, destroying the complacency of IIQ leeches and similar nuisance behavior. Perhaps most importantly, players in the large gray area between PA and SA, currently forced to choose between the extreme of zero non-allocated pickups and the extreme of extremely competitive loot scrambles, will be able to find a proper home. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jun 22, 2013, 4:25:37 AM
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" You're describing a set of very complex game mechanics that would end up with pretty much the same result as the lack of them would (without them it would be organically achieved through simple formation of social bonds and community organization). Why the need to replace player to player interaction with a game system? |
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"Informed choices. Pub gaming needs to function, particularly when social bonds are broken or hitherto unformed. Party leaders in particular must make choices about players they've never met; this is the only real flaw with the previous (before loot options) system. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jun 22, 2013, 5:04:37 AM
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" But it's not like there's thousands of players running thousands of groups at every level. How it works out most of the time is that you end up doing maps with a pretty small pool of more or less the same people, and you should be able to ascertain the character of said people in a few runs at most. It's nothing a slightly more advanced friends tab (with the ability to add comments near a player's name) wouldn't "fix". It's the same social "mechanic" people used to deal with habitual map ninjas really. Give players more credit, they're better at organizing things than they themselves would think! |
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"A matchmaking mechanic -- which is what this is -- isn't aimed at people who can match themselves. It's aimed at people who haven't yet. And notice it's not stopping you, at all, from forming your own groups with your friends, or having any non-social mechanical impact. I completely expect that well-established players would almost totally ignore the matchmaking system. I agree with you this far: something like this would take a while to put together, and in the meantime we should just go back to loot allocation the way it was before. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jun 22, 2013, 5:18:06 AM
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Why is the difficulty difference between PA and SA so much greater than between a party of players with good "ratings" and a party of players with bad "ratings"?
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