Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

End result? The best of both worlds. You'll be able to quickly and easily find players with a proven track record of non-ninja behavior, assuming that you too have a proven track record of non-ninja behavior.

Problem is theres no such thing as Ninjas in a FFA style of game. You would basically be punishing people for playing legit.

Id say leechers/moochers are more of an issue then people picking up loot.

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Vooodu wrote:

Problem is theres no such thing as Ninjas in a FFA style of game.

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Chris wrote:

To start with, I should note that we are currently planning to add several modes for Loot Allocation in parties: Full Free-for-all, something close to the current system, and a mode with longer allocation duration for people who don't want to deal with item tension. This decision was very hard to make because all of our developers are ninja-looters and love extreme item tension, but after talking with a lot of players, we realised that many people would have a lot more fun if we offered these options.

The devs would disagree there.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

Problem is theres no such thing as Ninjas in a FFA style of game.

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Chris wrote:

To start with, I should note that we are currently planning to add several modes for Loot Allocation in parties: Full Free-for-all, something close to the current system, and a mode with longer allocation duration for people who don't want to deal with item tension. This decision was very hard to make because all of our developers are ninja-looters and love extreme item tension, but after talking with a lot of players, we realised that many people would have a lot more fun if we offered these options.

The devs would disagree there.

Well, to be honest about it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja


I would like to know why this term is used in ARPGs by anyone. I simply wont use it and refuse to except its existence. Manly because its mostly used by really whiney people who annoy the hell out me.

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Vooodu wrote:

Problem is theres no such thing as Ninjas in a FFA style of game. You would basically be punishing people for playing legit.

If putting people who play with the same kind of FFA style with other players who play with a FFA style is punishing them... then yes.

But I don't think it is.

TL:DR - I like PA. I don't mind ffa, but if I have to play with ninjas in public I will just continue playing solo.

I really like how there are loot options now. I love PA(even tho it is not always working, I think you have to choose it and then join a new area for it to work. It doesn't seem to work in the area you activate it in).
I play a lot more with random people from the global chat and I join a lot more public games now.
Not just myself all the time anymore. And I have even started using the trade chat more as my *trust towards this community is increasing.

But I would love it even better if I didn't have to decide how much I trust other people everytime I join a game or open my own game to the public.

That is why I support this suggestion:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Imagine with me for a moment...

Spoiler

Imagine that loot options weren't something you selected out of three constricting choices, but something the game automatically did, fitting you with players which matched your loot tension playstyle.

Let's say the game allocates loot by name, but doesn't enforce it at all; so things essentially drop FFA, but the name of the fair recipient is always attached. (Perhaps a short timer is added, but it shouldn't interfere with the pace of play.)

The game keeps track of two metrics for each character (not account), both of only grow with time. Whenever something drops with someone else's name on it, the first metric is incremented; the amount of increment is based on the probability of the drop (for example, if there's a 1% chance to drop Occultist's Vestment, a 1% chance of it being unique, and a 1% chance of being 5L, a 5L Shavronne's is worth 100^3=a million points here). The second metric only goes up when you take something that isn't allocated to you, using the exact same point system. The game then uses these to form a ratio -- essentially what value of loot you take from other players, a kind of loot tension score.

(boring math spoiler in the original post was here, I removed it to make my post less boring) ;)

This ratio is then used in two ways. First, when you use the party board to search for parties, those with the closest match to your own loot tension score are sorted closest to the top. You're not prevented from joining any party you want, but the best fits are given priority, and you need to either scroll down a lot or friends-list someone to go way off your tension score. (Pleasant side effect: harder for ad-bots to interfere with notice board.) Second, a party leader can always see your score before deciding whether to let you into the party or not; as a reminder, the average score for the party is also displayed, so the party leader can see the difference.

Note that it's by character, not by account. If you want to make a character "good" who always uses the suggested allocation, then reroll as a "bad guy" who ninjas all the time, that kind of roleplay is supported.

End result? The best of both worlds. You'll be able to quickly and easily find players with a proven track record of non-ninja behavior, assuming that you too have a proven track record of non-ninja behavior. But even in those groups, some threat of loot tension will exist, destroying the complacency of IIQ leeches and similar nuisance behavior. Perhaps most importantly, players in the large gray area between PA and SA, currently forced to choose between the extreme of zero non-allocated pickups and the extreme of extremely competitive loot scrambles, will be able to find a proper home.

As someone inspired in me a few pages back, I would be able to prove myself generous and play fair at the same time and not have to worry about it. That is who I am and that is how I would love to play. And when I do something that is not in the direction I want to go with myself, somebody will remind me of the pain and inspire me to make it right and continue down my lonely road.

This way I would have a more confident feel that the people I exercise my generousity on, would be the people that I, personally, see as worthy. Not that competitive people are not worthy, it is just my personal opinion. I don't approve of external-competitive behaviour so I will not encourage it. Let the competitive elders encourage the kind of behaviour that their kind of young ones seek, and I'll join the ranks of the internal-competitive side of the community and encourage the kind of behaviour that I hold so dear to those who seek it.**

Metaphorically I dare compare the community with a magnet. Let's get - and + where they are supposed to be. One is not better than the other. One can not be without the other(okay, maybe you will do fine without us to be honest when it comes down to PoE(sorry for preaching, I couldn't help myself), but I hope you get my point anyway)).

Anyway...

Just wanted to share my feel on this as I notised a few mentioning that the people who experience the changes as positive don't comment much.

Edit: Typos end elaboration

*I have a schizotypal personality. It's much like schizophrenia, but then again not quite. I don't get out much and rarely socialize. PoE could become my healing experience or at least a part of it, and maybe others' too. Others who are like me in some way or another. It might not seem like much. But I'm starting to see good people here and there... Not just one big group of people I cannot connect with. Maybe this will fade again fast, but hopefully it will become a part of me.

**I think a big part of this is about motivation. A lot of you are motivated by others who force you to be ready all the time. I guess I would call those ninjas. But to me it is seriously demotivating having other people do that to me, when already I'm hanging in a thread. - My way of striking back is to start a QQ-rant. Because what you did hurt me(call me emo if you like) and I doubt I'm able to hurt you back, so I want to at least annoy you for revenge. Yea I'll piss you off for a while for what you did to me. Ninjas make me more likely to not take part in the community, because when I feel strong enough to try, a bad experience will make me stay away next time I have a little strength. But when I get the feel that I make a difference to somebody by a random act of kindness. When I convince myself that I did something good. It may be an illusion, but this is my motivating factor.
What is not an illusion is when a stranger tells you that you missed looting a GCP or an Exalted Orb. Or somebody you play with suddenly give you a useful item for your build, because he/she liked what you had going and wanted to compliment it. In the act of doing the illusion shatters. Theese are the experiences I like to give other people. And I have had almost none, but at least a few of theese experiences from the mercy of other people. That makes me want to be like that even more! I'm not trying to change the world. But we could change this community. If nothing else works then at least divide us. This way you can have your peace and we can have our trust. And in the trade chat we will get along because all the while... All is well.


LAST EDIT(... I think): Yes I'm done now(turns out I lied, but now I am!! for real-real this time). Thank you for reading.

Uh, Just host your own game?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

Problem is theres no such thing as Ninjas in a FFA style of game. You would basically be punishing people for playing legit.

If putting people who play with the same kind of FFA style with other players who play with a FFA style is punishing them... then yes.

But I don't think it is.

With your rating idea everyone would be forced to play nice to get good rating so that they can get into the groups where no one is ninjaing, because those are sooo much easier and therefor every single player will do it. Right?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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snapple99 wrote:

The bottom line for me is that it takes me WAY too long to analyze the drops so I pick up nothing when I am grouped.

You can't be serious. They are color-coded for your convenience; you just click on the orange, yellow, and gold text. It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science? So you'd leave that white 6L chest piece on the ground in favor of some sparkly unique that probably does nothing useful? If it was so simple as "scoop up any uniques which are allocated to you" then you'd be correct. Even then, however, I still wouldn't want to participate in what is essentially PvP.

As another poster noted, I don't really like the loot competition mini-game. I get it that the developer's do. So for me it's enough to say "I need to play a different game" and for them it's enough to say, "This is the game we want to create". There is no right or wrong here. There is only "the game they want to create" and "will it put food on the table?" Honestly, I like this dev team. I hope it does. But it won't be my money helping to feed them.

In the end though, my game is crippled not so much by the loot competition minigame as the core mechanic of the game which is barter rather than fighting, farming or crafting.