Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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iamstryker wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

Spout off controversial statements? Followed by Learn the difference or GFTO?

What I said is true. Prove me wrong or STFU.

See, I can play that game too... Dumbass. But unlike you I can back that up. You can't.

Its so easy to prove you wrong though. All it would take is a few players saying that they played D2 for awhile and didn't like or participate in FFA which many PoE players have already stated in this very thread. I played D2 and it wouldn't matter how long I played it, I never would have enjoyed FFA or thought it was good for the game. Case closed, your wrong.

Your still a troll, nothing has changed.

Its easy to prove me wrong is it? Funny, D2 being the greatest and most played ARPG of all DAMN time says other wise.

And no one cares if a few stupid, entitled kids who got angry at LOOT stopped playing D2. For every one kid who quit a 100,000 more kept playing.

Does that make you angry?



You are right tho, nothing has changed. You're still full of crap.


Case Closed.





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Vooodu wrote:

Its easy to prove me wrong is it? Funny, D2 being the greatest and most played ARPG of all DAMN time says other wise.

Seriously think about it. D2 being a great game has nothing at all to do with the what I called you out on. Everyone who played D2 was NOT satisfied with the loot system. Thats just your opinion. We all know you dislike options and what the devs decided to do with PoE. You don't have to make up junk points like that to show how you feel. I can argue my point without making stuff up. Thats the difference.

One thing is obvious to me though. Looting options will never leave the game again. Anyone against them is literally just coming in here to whine about it. I have no need to argue or prove anyone wrong anymore. Its just entertainment for me :) Have a nice day.

Really the problem I have is what next, the crying train is going to turn this game into d3. How did we get to this point where we lost on the loot battle. Whats next, the drop rate? 6L's made easier? I see the whining shifted to the next mechanic they want nerfed/made easier. And really to what end. Because at the end of the day, those gamers will come, finish the easy mode game and then leave. While the rest of us, who supported the game's original vision to pick up the pieces. Thats what makes me mad. You have a bunch of entitled gamers demanding easier this, easier that and when they get it they complain about endgame and then leave. This is the repeated cycle over and over.

GGG should already know that this is the direction they are headed for everytime they bend their rule set. If you want easier rule sets, then keep that in default leagues, dont mess up the hardcore league with this carebearish stuff.

Well tbh. Looks like there's alot of irrelevant, meaningless BS talk in here.

Here's what I think about the current situation:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/420367

Posting it here, since its hard to get heard in POE forums, apparently.

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yuwy wrote:

Really the problem I have is what next, the crying train is going to turn this game into d3. How did we get to this point where we lost on the loot battle. Whats next, the drop rate? 6L's made easier? I see the whining shifted to the next mechanic they want nerfed/made easier. And really to what end. Because at the end of the day, those gamers will come, finish the easy mode game and then leave. While the rest of us, who supported the game's original vision to pick up the pieces. Thats what makes me mad. You have a bunch of entitled gamers demanding easier this, easier that and when they get it they complain about endgame and then leave. This is the repeated cycle over and over.

GGG should already know that this is the direction they are headed for everytime they bend their rule set.

From a thread that shouldn't exist, because this is the only authorized loot allocation discussion thread (edit: was? I swear that sticky was up earlier today):

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Evlesoa wrote:

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nynyny wrote:

I was pretty skeptical when I first saw the new options GGG added to the loot system, and it turns out that I was for a reason. Not only does it slow down the map clearing speed of most groups since there are a lot of people who tend to play extremely safe now, like for example stay completely out of the bosses range and dont attack him more than once since they know that noone can snatch their loot anyway.

Before implementing it the devs should have though about the consequences. It was obvious that as soon as this kind of option is available 90% of the groups will use it, and if you ask me that simply isnt a good sign. Giving people an easy way out to avoid actual competition will always make them choose said way.

It's pretty simple: it's a choice. You got friends who do drugs, and friends who drink. Big fucking deal. If your friends (the players) choose to do drugs, you don't have to hang out with them. Don't you get it through that thickness of yours that you are given a choice? What, you want to eradicate alcohol and drugs because you don't like that there is a choice having to do those things? What are you trying to play, the next Hitler? You're impeding on my freedoms of choosing what kind of party I want to join, and if you don't like it, I didn't force you to join, yet you're trying to REMOVE the option altogether. What is wrong with you? Go play solo, go do something else. Ask your friends to play free for all, but don't come here and try to take other people's freedom away, and stop crying, for the love of the game.

CHOICE. Make it, but don't take it away from others. Snob.

"If you ask me it isn't a good sign" -- guess what? No one asked you. There are lots of people who support it, myself included.

What the "loot options" proponents fail to understand is that they are the enemies of choice, not the friends of it.

Yes, if you have friends who drink or use drugs, you don't have to hang out with them. Precisely our point. Instead, "loot options" compel them to hang out with you (what other options do they have with everyone choosing "permanent"?), while their activity is continuously sanctioned, as if alcohol and drugs were eradicated from the face of the earth.

The idea behind the old system was to give the player real dilemmas, real choices. The decision to ninja loot for a quick gain, or not ninja loot in order to maintain honor in the eyes of the group, was a choice; now choice is gone. The decision to allow a player into your party, based on whether you trust or distrust them, is now irrelevant, thus no longer a choice; there is no trust to betray. Okay, so maybe the old system had trouble making those choices relevant... who cares? The point is that it was trying to implement true choice. It just needed some help.

Instead, it got destruction.

A choice on whether or not to destroy choices -- with a clear bias towards destroying them -- is not an invitation to choose. It's an invitation to prevent choice, an invitation to determinism. Frankly, it's kind of sad that both the players and GGG aren't able to see through the bandying around of the word "options" and realize what those options really mean.

The defect in the old system was not the lack of choice, but the need to frequently make blind choices. RandomPlayer wants to join the party; should we allow him or not? Admittedly, under the old system this was a major problem, and I agree that it needed to be addressed somehow... which is why I believe the correct choice at this point is to remove "loot options" while simultaneously implementing a Reddit-style "karma" voting system for accounts. (Obviously bot protection would be implemented: for example, no votes until one character on the account is level 25, and banned accounts have all of their votes revoked.)

This karma system might not be as good as actual experience with the player, but it would give party leaders something to go off of, and give possible ninjas something to fear in terms of reprisal. RandomPlayer has negative karma? The party leader might allow it, might not; it depends on how forgiving that player is feeling. Choice. The chance to grab someone else's unique? I could ninja it, but then I'd get downvotes and it might be hard for me to find a good party. Choice.

That is a choice mechanic. What we have now is a no-choice mechanic.

However, instead of salvaging a strong mechanic that actually made you feel like an exiled criminal on an island full of exiled criminals... at the urging of the players, GGG completely scrapped it, refusing to treat its problems and killing it off instead. Thus yuwy is correct about one thing: GGG had a moral failure here. They failed to stick to their guns; they caved. Yes, the loot system had issues; yes, those issues demanded resolution. But there is a fundamental difference between repairing a broken part and replacing it, between standing up for what you believe enough to fix it properly and selling it out for an entirely different vision. If anything, that's when sticking to your guns is more important than ever.

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yuwy wrote:

Because at the end of the day, those gamers will come, finish the easy mode game and then leave.

I am proof that this is just a stereotype. Also I have seen people on your side of the argument vanish from the game even before looting options was added. People come and go for different reasons.

Not everyone needs pvp to feel challenged from a game. If you do need that then go play a game that actually specializes and excels in pvp. Not a Diablo syle dungeon crawl.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The decision to allow a player into your party, based on whether you trust or distrust them

So what happens when you distrust EVERYONE? Don't ever party? Doesn't sound like a great way to encourage grouping.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

or not ninja loot in order to maintain honor in the eyes of the group,

This only remotely works if your actually playing with close friends. In public games this means absolutely nothing. I have never seen anyone anywhere ever say that they ninjaed something and regretted it because now their reputation is tarnished, its harder to get into groups, etc etc. In reality you can ninja whatever you want and hop right back into another group. The choices you advocate only benefit the ninja and thats it, thats only one reason it didn't work and I don't see the reddit karma system you talked about making it any better. It would be pointless because of how abusable it would be and still wouldn't provide an adequate way to measure who would take the most valuable items and who would not. When it comes down to it most ANY player would take a super rare drop and deal with the very small to NO consequences for doing it.

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iamstryker wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The decision to allow a player into your party, based on whether you trust or distrust them

So what happens when you distrust EVERYONE? Don't ever party? Doesn't sound like a great way to encourage grouping.

Hence the need for the karma system.

If you're still skeptical of very high-karma players, then just like in real life, your paranoia would be causing irrational decision-making... but it would still be your choice.

Also striker read my entire post then edit in your responses ROFL

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

The decision to allow a player into your party, based on whether you trust or distrust them

So what happens when you distrust EVERYONE? Don't ever party? Doesn't sound like a great way to encourage grouping.

Hence the need for the karma system.

If you're still skeptical of very high-karma players, then just like in real life, your paranoia would be causing irrational decision-making... but it would still be your choice.

Also striker read my entire post then edit in your responses ROFL

Like I said above, it wouldn't be irrational. Would I rather be over an exalt richer or take a hit on a meaningless overly abused karma system? There's no way a few votes would have enough effect to bother that player at all.

p.s. My name is stryker, and whats wrong with that?

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iamstryker wrote:

Would I rather be over an exalt richer or take a hit on a meaningless overly abused karma system? There's no way a few votes would have enough effect to bother that player at all.

Look at the sheer length of this thread. Look at the tone, all the way from beginning to end. Think about the stickies that were so necessary at the beginning of OB to redirect people here, and the thread spam that precipitated them.

Now take a moment and really ponder how the karma system would work. Imagine all those voices with voting power. Close your eyes and put your predictive imagination to work.

edit: Taking my own advice, I realized that upvotes and downvotes should be separate, not added together; so instead of +1, you might see +4/-3.

Still think the votes wouldn't matter?

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Still think the votes wouldn't matter?

More than likely not since it would be so easily abusable and still wouldn't be difficult to get into a simple public party. Especially since in a competitive environment people kind of know that its ok to be competitive. Seems silly to me to give someone a negative mark for playing the game in the competitive manner that it was designed. I can see many players completely ignoring the karma system since they do not care if that person is a ninja because so are they!, and so are basically everyone that they meet. Just my opinion.