Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

My experience in free-for-all item looting games was not exciting. I love killing monsters and I love finding items. Some of us are not mouse clicking maniacs.... so, some people such as myself will simply not be able to compete with the younger, more active players. Human perception time is 0.75 seconds, reaction time is the same... 0.75 seconds. It takes 1.5 seconds to react and act (unless you're a fan of Olson theory, which makes the PRT 1.1 seconds). I don't want to worry that for 1 second those items are available to other players that are just faster at clicking their $100 Razr than I am.

That, however, would not turn me away from the game. If that's the level of difficulty and interaction the developers want to add to the game, then so be it. What would really frustrate me, and it's something that D2 was overran with..... HACKS. A simple pick-it script will take advantage of that 1 second and non-hacking players will never be able to get anything good.

I am in favor of a system that makes whites free-for-all and magic & above a vote (dice rolling) game. Whoever rolls the highest wins (of course there are hacks for that too... but I've seen less of those).

"

bkboggy wrote:

My experience in free-for-all item looting games was not exciting. I love killing monsters and I love finding items. Some of us are not mouse clicking maniacs.... so, some people such as myself will simply not be able to compete with the younger, more active players. Human perception time is 0.75 seconds, reaction time is the same... 0.75 seconds. It takes 1.5 seconds to react and act (unless you're a fan of Olson theory, which makes the PRT 1.1 seconds). I don't want to worry that for 1 second those items are available to other players that are just faster at clicking their $100 Razr than I am.

That, however, would not turn me away from the game. If that's the level of difficulty and interaction the developers want to add to the game, then so be it. What would really frustrate me, and it's something that D2 was overran with..... HACKS. A simple pick-it script will take advantage of that 1 second and non-hacking players will never be able to get anything good.

I am in favor of a system that makes whites free-for-all and magic & above a vote (dice rolling) game. Whoever rolls the highest wins (of course there are hacks for that too... but I've seen less of those).

How old are you bkboggy?? You sound like you're in your 80's! :P

Only joking, if the game was as you said free-for-all whites with magic & above a dice rolle....I would still play the game.

The only annoying thing I can see about allocated loot, is that if you're farming for a specific item...and considering how rare some of these item's are to drop, it would be so disappointing to finally have your item drop, and it goes to someone else. I'd want a fare go at picking up that item...wouldn't that make item's even more rare then they already are??? Or am I over thinking this?? :D

"

jmackay wrote:

The only annoying thing I can see about allocated loot, is that if you're farming for a specific item...and considering how rare some of these item's are to drop, it would be so disappointing to finally have your item drop, and it goes to someone else. I'd want a fare go at picking up that item...wouldn't that make item's even more rare then they already are??? Or am I over thinking this?? :D

With allocated loot you usually won't even see the items that are not allocated to you so your scenario shouldn't happen. Also you can't get less items in such a system because then nobody would play in groups. Group always has to be at least up to par with solo play or it'll die.

The question is how much of that additional influx of items in group play will be on the backs of slower players...

I think there are two points.

1.) I want to fight. And I don't want to be penalized, because I fight better, by not rushing to the boss monster in its last seconds to grab the items that are falling without even looking at them.
Yes, I am assuming, that it is a better fighting style for the group, not to run straight into the monster being killed in the next seconds.
Otherwise, the loot aspect will become too important for me. I think it's necessary that the loot is for the fighting. The other way round: if you fight mainly for the loot, my question is: What will you do with the pockets full of the nicest things. I think the focus should be on the joy of fighting. Sure, loot improves this joy, but this leads to my second point.

2.)

"

jmackay wrote:

I'd want a fare go at picking up that item

I want it fair. And I think fair in this case is: If you pay attention, you will be rewarded. This would not be true for FFA. Then many builds and persons would be discriminated.
It fits for this game I think, that you really have to watch out, if you want to pick up something. But you should not be restricted too much in your fighting.

In conclusion, I think the system is on a very good way. It has to be balanced, with the special time and such, but I think it could work quite well. It s competitive but fair for most of all.

And really, we won't be able to say here whether it works for this particular game. Most of us base our theories from experiences with other games. I am sure that if most people are not happy, the team will change the system to please the majority.

FFA looting has lead to griefing and a proliferation of third party software giving certain players an advantage. In my experience, the result is negative for any multiplayer game using such a system.

While a timer is better than a pure FFA system, I'm afraid it will detract from the enjoyment of the game significantly by forcing players to overly focus on the loot rather than the combat because players who do not will receive practically no rewards for participating in combat.

Since I, personally, never use third party software to gain an advantage, then if, as was the case in other similar games, being the most productive and skillful party member during the fighting results in greatly diminished rewards I will end up not playing with strangers at all. From past experience, I know I am not alone in this opinion and such a severe loot punishment for simply giving other players a chance in group play results in a highly fractured community. Is that really what the loot system hopes to accomplish?

As another poster mentioned, I think FFA loot should be left to one realm and instanced loot, where each player gets individual loot drops which are not seen by other players, should be on another realm. Giving players the choice would allow the types of players who want to play in the same manner the opportunity to play together without penalizing either group or adding strange timers which don't satisfy either set.

"

bkboggy wrote:

Human perception time is 0.75 seconds, reaction time is the same... 0.75 seconds. It takes 1.5 seconds to react and act (unless you're a fan of Olson theory, which makes the PRT 1.1 seconds).

Online reaction time test

I just got average 0.235 seconds reaction time on first attempt. Certainly a lot less than your 1.5 seconds.

Also, some statistics

I get around 0.3... but that test is not accurate. You're anticipating for that to happen. When your mind is focused on something else... let's say driving... or killing mobs, your average perception+reaction time is going to be 1.5 seconds. Trust me... I deal with that theory for a living.

I don't understand the insistence on FFA. Why not just make it optional. Let the users decide individually if they want FFA or allocated Looting.

Anarchy Online did it. Also most MMO's have realized long ago that they get happier players if they provide different servers with and without PVP.

"A cutthroat world without PVP!" you say? Yes, why not. I agree that it might not really fit into the theme but for those playing on a PVP server it will not change anything if there is a separate non PVP server.

The only reason why anyone would feel cheated by an ALS (allocated loot system) is because their intention was to "cheat" other players out of the loot they earned them self in battle.

Assuming you group with someone who has ALS activated. Just think of that player as someone exactly as fast as you when it comes to clicking on loot. This is something you would have to deal with anyway. The ALS just makes it a bit more common.

Or you could make the option for a whole group instead of individual. (Assuming each group is instanced outside of town.) Then everyone who can just group with the people who prefer the same system...

Yeah, I tend to agree that FFA should be optional. There seems to be so many people that want it that it would be good to have the option for both sides to choose.