Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

In other online role playing games that offer loot options parties will exist for all loot options. Some will be more popular than others but the timer system will still be used if instanced in introduced as an option.
I personally like the timer system. But I feel that it need to be changed to promote additional co-operation between team mate and to reduce the potential for abuse.

There is a portion of the game population that like full FFA, you will have the freedom to create your own public/private party with the options you want or you can join an existing one.


Edit-
I disagree with your statement that the two reasons will prevent ALL Timer loot parties. If others options were added the number of Co-Op games would increase. Some people prefer the Timer system so the overall number of Timer loot parties will remain the same while the total number of available parties would increase.

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wrathmar wrote:

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SMRD wrote:

If there are loot "rules" set by someone then the only public games played will be instanced loot games.

proof?

He summarizes his reasoning for his statement in his post. Absolute proof for this game is not possible yet. Logic dictates he is correct though:

Instanced = Simple, non competitive, non sharing environment. Everyone moves at their own pace.

FFA = Quick moving, having to pay attention or get ganked, non sharing environment. Stay pace with the group or don't get drops.

Only time either of these are sharing environments is in good parties. Which style do you think people will play if they get a choice? Whatever style lets them watch tv while leeching off runners. Remember, this is OB were talking about changing. Which is going to be a large group of players who, if it changes, will not even know why there would be a FFA option.


Edit:

I just thought of something that hasn't been brought up for instanced. Is this going to be "Ye who kills the enemy gets the loot", or is it going to be "Ye who kills the enemy, said enemy will drop loot for everyone's instance"?

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

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SMRD wrote:

If there are loot "rules" set by someone then the only public games played will be instanced loot games.

proof?

He summarizes his reasoning for his statement in his post. Absolute proof for this game is not possible yet. Logic dictates he is correct though:

Instanced = Simple, non competitive, non sharing environment. Everyone moves at their own pace.

FFA = Quick moving, having to pay attention or get ganked, non sharing environment. Stay pace with the group or don't get drops.

Only time either of these are sharing environments is in good parties. Which style do you think people will play if they get a choice? Whatever style lets them watch tv while leeching off runners. Remember, this is OB were talking about changing. Which is going to be a large group of players who, if it changes, will not even know why there would be a FFA option.

It could be argued that the Timer system allows for greater leaching.



I believe that adding loot options will increase the total number of public parties. Some players will prefer to play in the timer environment. So total number of public parties will increase while the number of Timer loot parties should remain constant.

I will refer to one of my previous posts.

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lethal_papercut wrote:

Gotta love the folks who say "instanced is bad cos then everyone will play instanced and noone will want to play FFA"...THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT YOU IDIOTS!

A portion of the game population enjoys Timer (FFA) and will play that exclusively. With the hopefully increased Open Beta player population the total number of Timer loot games should be similar to the total number of public groups in Closed Beta.

God forbid people have a choice.

And for the record, this isn't a choice of easy mode vs. hard mode, this is a choice of play style. You are forced to play like a douche with FFA or short timers. Either that or get robbed blind. Or, if you're really lucky, find a group of people that are happy to let the allocation determine ownership, which also turns out to be exactly like this "easy mode" you describe.

The bottom line is offering a choice isn't making the game easy or hard, it's letting people play a different way, a way that a vast majority (not all) will want to play.

Open Beta will hit, and so will a bunch of people that won't be happy with the loot allocation; if you think it's noisy now, just wait. The devs will be forced to listen (for the record, I truly believe they are following this and the other threads like this) and a change will be made. I don't want that change to be instanced loot, but options wouldn't hurt.

SMRD you are making presumptions about the motives behind people wanting instanced loot from the totally wrong perspective. I am in favor of having the options to play both ways. The reason I am in favor of that is because I feel that both ways to play are valid and each has it's time & a place. I believe by giving people the option to tailor their multiplayer experience more we will result in more overall people playing multiplayer in general.

As I said there is a time & a place for both styles. For example, I am running with people I know in a small group, we all have different builds & different requirements for gear, it makes sense for us to use FFA loot when we party up. It would mean that loot can be distributed with our own set of terms that we have all agreed on because we are friends. It works well & the pace of the game isn't effected as players can see what loot dropped & only pick up what is relevant to them. That is until the one day a mirror drops or the same guy snipes 2ex in a row & all hell breaks loose, they fall out, call eachother's mother a fat bitch & then make friends again after, the cycle goes on. Great.

FFA has it's place in POE, I (& anyone with any sense) realise that & we are not advocating for it to be removed from the game, if it were being offered by the devs as a 1 or the other I would have to think seriously as I feel both have their merits. We are asking for the option to play in both ways. It is an extension to the game, more, not taking something from one to give to another, it gives more to everyone.

Now consider post OB. We are hoping for lots of players & anyone can play the game as it's F2P. New players come to the game & fall in love with the skill tree & the games potential, but they join a pub & quickly realise that the only way to play is FFA, a form of PVP within a team setting. The reason they joined a public game was to play cooperatively with other players & combine as a force to kill the monsters, as far as they are concerned the monsters are the enemy & when they are on a team together they are not expecting for that to also involve a form of PVP for gear. Currently their only options are to "learn to like it" or "play solo".

Both result in a disgruntled customer & 1 less player connecting with others & forming a bigger community. People don't generally learn to like things, we are adults & I would expect us all to be at a stage where we know what we like as far as this is concerned. It's not like FFA is some new way of doing things that noone has come across before. Most of us have & most of us are sick of it. So they are left with playing solo, which is essentially a fail for everyone.

The people that enjoy using FFA as a social tool to weed out the dicks will still be at full liberty to do so with added options. Those people can host public games with FFA loot & the respective interested players will be drawn to play. Similarly the players who prefer instanced will be drawn to their games. And heaven forbid there are people out there that like to play both styles, they will get the best of both worlds and can play any god damn game they choose. Without the option for the instanced folk we may well see up to 50% less potential multiplayer activity as a result.

This debate shouldn't be about an 'either or' situation, it's not like it has to be black or white. I strongly urge people to consider having options so there is more than just 1 way of doing this very polarising mechanic.

It's not about being hardcore, being a noob, being lazy or quick on the draw, it's not about making the game easy or hard or roleplaying as a criminal...it's about creating a situation where POE's multiplayer is appealing & accessible rather than niche & restrictive.

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SMRD wrote:

I do not think the devs will change anything. It is only a month before OB and any system change would require a great deal of testing, then again you are in the alpha realm, you would know already if its gonna happen or not.

I suggest you try to listen to the interview Chris gave with Kripp earlier. He talks about there being large changes in Alpha & also a continuous stream of possibly major changes to the OB there after. He has stated that the for at least the foreseeable future the game still has a lot of changes to be made & implemented so don't go thinking that just because something might require a re-balance that it isn't going to happen.