Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

I think that map drops should be guaranteed to the instance creator.

Since maps are end game content and there is the potential to run out of them and have to trade for them or farm them in out-leveled content, I think most people will not open their map run to public parties and run them solo or with friends in private parties.

If maps drops were guaranteed to the instance creator, then a lot more people would be willing to open their map run to public parties to take advantage of increased loot quantity.

It would also make PoE end game a more social experience.

221 pages of arguing about FFA loot...

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Your way of looking at it is not the same as myself and the others arguing for options. I like playing coop because its more fun. I like the teamwork and the social factors. Why would instanced loot leave no reason to party besides xp? That just sounds crazy to me. Furthermore instanced loot is not the only thing we are discussing here. This issue can be mostly solved without pulling in full on D3 instanced loot.

Like I said before, instanced loot = single player. No longer getting additional drops for partying means people no longer are required to party to try to get more chances at better drops. It becomes party when you need to, not as a basic premise of the game. Sure, some people will still party, the majority who come into the game on OB will not unless they are trying to get someone to power level/ rush them. Once that happens the game goes stale.

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If your going to ask me to prove that most people want options then why don't you prove the opposite? I can give evidences in all of the threads but its impossible to satisfy everyone with absolute proof. Thats why I want it tested out to see how popular options would be. Ya devs are active in the forums but not this partiular issue, why is that?

You are the one who keeps saying a majority wants this change. I have not said anything of that sort. Linking threads that have the same overall 50 or so people saying they want this change is not evidence that an overall majority want this change. A poll is still the best option to get opinion without treading on popular opinion of a vocal minority. Anytime anyone is against instanced you guys dump all over them and then say to change a fundamental of this game to permit your play style while crapping all over theirs.

Their not active on this "issue" because it really isn't an issue. You guys are asking to change a fundamental of the game right before launch.

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Hey we completely agree on something.

We always do. I was originally able to compromise on this "issue", but that was when I had less experience with the dynamics of this game. I fully believe instanced loot will turn this game into a flop.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Like I said before, instanced loot = single player. No longer getting additional drops for partying means people no longer are required to party to try to get more chances at better drops. It becomes party when you need to, not as a basic premise of the game. Sure, some people will still party, the majority who come into the game on OB will not unless they are trying to get someone to power level/ rush them. Once that happens the game goes stale.

Thats your opinion. But at any rate why are we only talking about instanced? I'm definitely not. I'm talking about forced loot competition in public games and FFA being the only option. I think people generally like to coop because its enjoyable. I don't care if there is an IIQ bonus or not I will always like coop and I don't think I am alone in that.

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You are the one who keeps saying a majority wants this change. I have not said anything of that sort. Linking threads that have the same overall 50 or so people saying they want this change is not evidence that an overall majority want this change. A poll is still the best option to get opinion without treading on popular opinion of a vocal minority. Anytime anyone is against instanced you guys dump all over them and then say to change a fundamental of this game to permit your play style while crapping all over theirs.

Thats because I do feel that we are the majority. Did you not call us a vocal minority? Your making a claim just as we are. There has been more than one poll thread already that shows most players wanting a change and FFA being one of the main reasons people don't party. Same 50 people? Not true at all, there's more than 50 in this thread alone I bet. But you can head on over to suggestions right now and there is a thread of people I have not seen before complaining about FFA. Not everyone who dislikes FFA posts in this thread. If you haven't noticed my side of this arguement is not crapping on their play style. We actually want them to keep it. All we want is another option for us to play on, whatever that is or wheverever it is I don't care. I just feel it should be in the game somewhere. Not everyone enjoys pvp.

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Their not active on this "issue" because it really isn't an issue. You guys are asking to change a fundamental of the game right before launch.

Thats not even true. This issue has been alive for long before I ever arrived. The devs chose to put it off so its on them not us. If the devs don't see it as an issue then they could easily end it but they don't.

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Hey we completely agree on something.

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We always do. I was originally able to compromise on this "issue", but that was when I had less experience with the dynamics of this game. I fully believe instanced loot will turn this game into a flop.

If the devs absolutely don't want instanced at all anywhere then I am cool with that. Just put some more options for people who don't want the loot competition.

What other loot options would you have? WoW style need or greed? That'd be terrible for pacing.

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ifarmpandas wrote:

What other loot options would you have? WoW style need or greed? That'd be terrible for pacing.

There are many other options to improve the loot system without going full instanced. Here are a few that I have thought of.

1.Add 2-3 seconds to the base timer while reducing the max distance timer by 1 second. This change would benefit tanks and melee DPS builds more. Players at max range will still see an additional 1-2 seconds for loot. This change will provide all players a greater time to react while not impacting overall pace of looting.

2.Adjust the timer length based upon the rarity of the monster which dropped the item. White monsters and chests keep the current timer. Blue monsters increase base timer by 2 seconds, Rare by 3 seconds, Unique bosses should have permanently assigned loot. This will help with the frustration after boss/rare battles where multiple items drop and specific builds (tank) are only able to grab one item while some builds (minion) are able to grab more.

3.Adjust the timer based upon how many surviving monsters are within 50’ of dropped items. For every 10 white monsters increase base timer by 1 second; 5 blue monsters increase by 1 second; every rare monster increase by 1 second; every unique boss increase by 5 seconds. This will help with boss battles that have supporting mobs like the Weaver or the Church Dungeon.

4.Adjust the timer based upon the rarity of item dropped. Rare items increase base timer by 1-2 seconds, unique items increase base timer 3-4 seconds, similar setup for currency. Players only care about items >= rare and currency >=Jewelers. Give use more time to react to the items that we care about.

5.Any item that is not picked up before the timer expires will be destroyed. This will keep the rush of FFA while preventing players stopping mid combat to take their teammate’s loot.

6.Include a loot log and allow us to permanently ban players from our groups. If no changes are made to the core loot mechanics players will be expected to enforce loot rules that they feel comfortable with. In order to kick and block trouble players we will need to tools.

7.Add loot options to default/hardcore leagues while restricting option in ladder leagues. This will allow GGG to create a hardcore, cut throat, FFA (timer) loot league. This will benefit new players and casuals while providing hardcore players a chance to play in a FFA environment.

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ifarmpandas wrote:

What other loot options would you have? WoW style need or greed? That'd be terrible for pacing.

Good Lord you guys constantly preach about joining people who are like minded. Theres nothing at all stopping this issue from being resolved by giving party leaders control of increasing the timer another 10 seconds. Some of you would hate that, Great! Don't join those groups and group up with others who want to play super fast paced and don't mind a short timer.

Wrath has repeatedly given a ton of different options in this thread. I would personally except any of them that allows people to focus on PVE.

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SMRD wrote:

When you guys talk like this it really makes it sound like the average gamer is completely stupid.

Proven daily right here as a solid fact. (better still, half of them are even dummer then the average!)

Speak for yourself. I think gamers are smart enough to know what they like. Thats why D3 is so universally hated and POE is so loved. If people know that they don't enjoy FFA telling them they are wrong is ridiculous.

Instanced = single player. Right, because working together to dispose of enemies and not worrying about rushing to get loot or to screw someone else out of loot definitely makes the multiplayer experience worse.

That said, I'm not for Instanced loot, just extended timers that party creators choose whether or not to use. Giving players a choice is never a bad thing, lack of choice is what ruins games.

This is a never-ending argument. It's about as useless as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum.

Previous D2 players are more inclined to liking the FFA loot due to them being used to it, or showing themselves as a more hardcore crowd. While newer members of the ARPG genre, immigrants from D3, etc would be used to separate loot/rolling/need & greed/etc.

Chris & Gang have stated pretty clearly that they like FFA, and that they are building a game that they want...which is a hardcore game. I can't really say I'm for or against this, because personally I don't group with anyone and rather enjoy chatting in global and reading the forums for my social commodities(or lack thereof).

Which is why it's hard for me to understand why those that don't like FFA(I'll take this side as it's what the developers have commented as wanting) complain about being crapped on in groups or that it's unfair.

First off, placing yourself in a position to where you can be ripped off, knowing full well that this can happen...over and over again...leaves room for a diagnosis of insanity. There is not one part of this game that *requires* grouping, and therefore if the FFA group loot does not work for you then don't group. If your objective is to make friends and be social - well, I'm here to tell you...having friends usually means you're going to sacrifice in some areas to make room for them in others. It also means that if you have someone in your group that does try and take all the "lootz" that he/she probably isn't the best person to befriend, unless you're just sadistic like that.

With a game as complex as PoE, it surprises me that the community against FFA loot hasn't taken the more intelligent step in just normalizing a rule-based system around dividing loot without the help of a feature in game to do so for them. It's what MMO players did for fair loot distribution with things such as DKP.

At any rate, my two cents. Commence WWIII.