Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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SMRD wrote:

To some degree sure, outwardly. But its also a incentive for players to find others they can trust and share loot with.

I have issues with a video game that requires me to find people to trust to enjoy playing cooperatively. "Trust" is a strange word to use in regards to people that you meet on the internet. Your looking for people to enjoy the game with and under a better loot system I would enjoy the game with EVERYONE that I meet and not just the few that want to play by my rules. Also, I can make friends in this game just fine without FFA loot. FFA loot is not a pre requisite to meeting cool people.

Having a group of friends to play with is not a big part of this discussion. Its about jumping into a public game and not hating it or having to figure out if you should boot the guy killing the monsters with you.

I also feel like Slayer and other hardcore players aren't relating to other players who don't play the game as much. Of course someone who plays the game a lot every day is going to get to the point that losing a chaos orb or higher isn't going to feel like a big deal. To a new player or someone who doesn't play as much it feels like a big deal and doesn't feel like its worth playing public games. Please keep this in mind and try to look at it from someone else s perspective and not just your own.

You cooperate to kill the enemy, because he can kill you.

You compete for loot because you're all in the same instance. One monster cannot drop items in different dimensions for each player.

Jokes aside. This same mechanic works in private parties, where I tend to play. Pub games, for me, are more about all out fun BECAUSE of said loot mechanics and you never know who you'll get in a party .

I tend to find it funny. If someone just stands there, trying to leech. I just stop killing and run around the monsters to see what he does next.

It's a game guys. Have fun.

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Chrono89 wrote:

You strike me as the type of person that blames the oven when you get burnt.

If the oven purposely trys to burn you when you use it but you chose to use it anyway then ya its your fault that you got burnt. Hence why there aren't many public games going on. People don't feel like getting burnt.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

You compete for loot because you're all in the same instance. One monster cannot drop items in different dimensions for each player.

This game already drops loot in different dimensions. It just does it for a few seconds. Ya its not realistic, its not supposed to be its a video game. Thats why the devs put the timer on in the first place because they want this system to feel fair.

It does not dropping different dimensions. Otherwise the other players would not be able to see it.

Now, lets set that pseudo topic aside. You know very well the timer was put in place as a means of balance for ranged players. If you're at max range, you get 8 full seconds to grab your loot. That is quite a long time.

Edit. Also, balance and fair are two separate things

If we are expected to police our own group we will need to have a loot log so we can kick people who don’t play by our rules.

Also SMRD if you start “playing mean” by taking extra loot from a player, they will start taking extra loot from others, and then everyone starts trying for extra loot. And what happens is that 4 out of the 6 players in the group will not have a positive time and will stop grouping and maybe stop playing.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

It does not dropping different dimensions. Otherwise the other players would not be able to see it.

Now, lets set that pseudo topic aside. You know very well the timer was put in place as a means of balance for ranged players. If you're at max range, you get 8 full seconds to grab your loot. That is quite a long time.

Edit. Also, balance and fair are two separate things

There are players who would like to not have to rush after loot the moment it drops, and would rather finish clearing the area first. Personally, I would prefer this as it is not only less prone to a compounded disappointment upon a death and loss of a chance at receiving items, but it is also less stressful in general. However I can easily see how some players might consider this style of play uneventful and slow-paced.

As it stands now, some players are entirely within their comfort zone when engaging in Path of Exile's multiplayer, and I understand that any threat to change this can be unwanted, but that leaves some other players who love the game but are discouraged from a decent portion of the game's replayability due to a lack of compromise toward player interests.

If you don't mind, can I ask you this: do you feel a lack of treasure lust makes a player unworthy to receive loot, and that only those who are determined and driven should be rewarded (in a primarily cooperative setting)?

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SMRD wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

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SMRD wrote:

To some degree sure, outwardly. But its also a incentive for players to find others they can trust and share loot with.

Spoiler

I have issues with a video game that requires me to find people to trust to enjoy playing cooperatively. "Trust" is a strange word to use in regards to people that you meet on the internet. Your looking for people to enjoy the game with and under a better loot system I would enjoy the game with EVERYONE that I meet and not just the few that want to play by my rules. Also, I can make friends in this game just fine without FFA loot. FFA loot is not a pre requisite to meeting cool people.

Having a group of friends to play with is not a big part of this discussion. Its about jumping into a public game and not hating it or having to figure out if you should boot the guy killing the monsters with you.

I also feel like Slayer and other hardcore players aren't relating to other players who don't play the game as much. Of course someone who plays the game a lot every day is going to get to the point that losing a chaos orb or higher isn't going to feel like a big deal. To a new player or someone who doesn't play as much it feels like a big deal and doesn't feel like its worth playing public games. Please keep this in mind and try to look at it from someone else s perspective and not just your own.

I hardly know what you’re flailing against anymore iamstryker – so you make friends just fine but can’t stand it if a game system subtly rewards people who made friends. There are certainly no requirements – I played public and solo for months, I know. For someone who is such a casual player you sure have plenty of time to spend on the forums.

In a public game yes, some people WILL play the way they want.(even private games get all sorts with friends inviting their friends) You can avoid them or compete with them, please don’t appeal to the devs to give you controls that dictate how they can play. Quite frankly, when I’m in a party and I find that I don’t like someone (either making racists remarks or starts talking politics I disagree with or not helping the fight and just looting etc) I love the fact that I am free to “play mean” if I so choose.

Lastly, yes, it’s true that sometimes casual players will join public games and have a bad experience. They also might get prema-froze by Hailrake or slammed by Brutus.

This has nothing to do with me, other than the fact that I give myself as an example of how to deal with the loot system. We are just telling you why it works – and why it’s NOT bad design at all... The reasons are subtle and not easily understood by many players though, and this is the real problem – GGG will probably always get some degree flak over it. Thank goodness they are more concerned with making a great game instead of trying to please everyone.

Alright, rather than ripping apart your post and leaving little quote bubbles I just bolded the statements of particular interest to me. The rest of it I either agree with you, feel is largely irrelevant, or regard it as opinionated enough to discourage most debate.

Concerning dictating "how they can play", making the loot settings rigid and uncompromising does exactly this, although more indirectly. Why should the only options toward other players be "compete" and "avoid"? How about "cooperate"? If nothing else, party loot options would streamline the avoiding process.

I understand that you enjoy the current loot settings, and the use of a game mechanic to bully those you find you dislike (I apologize if this wording is harsh, I may be misinterpreting your use of 'play mean') but in my experiences most people don't seem to need a readily apparent reason.

I would prefer if the game were accommodating, while preferences such as yours defined the majority of the multiplayer experience. For another example, a group with loot set to be permanently assigned to specific players decides to give all of the items to a certain player. Of course in a hypothetical scenario where looting options existed this would be a poor choice of initial loot distribution, much like you being able to more easily antagonize others by master looting all of their assigned loot to yourself or something.

Your choice of words regarding dealing with the loot system is telling, whether intentional or not. As far as I can tell you don't feel that way toward Path of Exile's loot system of course, but I feel that at least some effort toward compromise for those players who are left to deal with the current set-up would be desirable, if handled well of course. I don't expect you to agree with me though, as you seem to prefer the current looting mechanics and any attempt to modify the system would jeopardize your preference.

Perhaps, with Grinding Gear Games' active competition, it is more wise to develop changes toward a certain type of player, but I believe that most if not all the aspects of the game outside of multiplayer looting are already flexible enough to serve as an example for improvement. From what I've experienced, there are multiple league options for radical gameplay changes with more on the way, there is both extensive content in PvE and (planned if nothing else) PvP, etc.

Uh... sorry for the essay, I'm in the midst of a euphoric high from a dose of Adderall and currently find myself engrossed by intellectual stimulation.

Oh right, I've never gotten to make one of these before--

Too Long Didn't Read: I am a massive carebear who enjoys holding hands and singing campfire songs.

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SMRD wrote:

I hardly know what you’re flailing against anymore iamstryker – so you make friends just fine but can’t stand it if a game system subtly rewards people who made friends. There are certainly no requirements – I played public and solo for months, I know. For someone who is such a casual player you sure have plenty of time to spend on the forums.

I never said that I couldn't find people to play the game with. I dislike the system regardless of that fact. My biggest issue is that I can't hop into public games and have a good time with a group. I don't want to waste my time getting irritated at people which is why other players like me get on here to complain. There's no requirement for you if you like the system, it is a requirement for players like me because we don't like it so we have to avoid groups and make friends along the way or else this loot system will just tick us off. Its very simple and has been explained many times so I don't know what your confused about. By the way somewhat of a casual player because I don't have the means to play all day like other people. Sometimes you see me posting when I am at work (On a computer), I'm not going to play Path of Exile at work. Other times I am at home watching my daughter and I can post on the forum but I can't play the game.

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SMRD wrote:

please don’t appeal to the devs to give you controls that dictate how they can play.

This is what I find to be strange. I am free and encouraged to make my own public game and boot people who don't play like I want. But when I ask for an option to enforce that rule for me its all of the sudden a huge issue. I have no interest in waiting for a player to take something valuable and then booting them. Its compounded by other issues like I can't always see who's name was on the item because I am more focused on the game play fighting the monsters.

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SMRD wrote:

why it’s NOT bad design at all...

I don't think its bad design. I think its a very limited design that appeals to a smaller portion of players. I like having it around for people to use, I don't like it being the only way to enjoy the game.

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SMRD wrote:

Thank goodness they are more concerned with making a great game instead of trying to please everyone.

They are very busy which is understandable. I'm concerned because it is a fairly big issue for a lot of players. I like to discuss it in the forums but I don't let it bother me too much since I love the game so much.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

It does not dropping different dimensions. Otherwise the other players would not be able to see it.

Now, lets set that pseudo topic aside. You know very well the timer was put in place as a means of balance for ranged players. If you're at max range, you get 8 full seconds to grab your loot. That is quite a long time.

Edit. Also, balance and fair are two separate things

So if the timer was infinite then you wouldn't like at it as seperate loot for each player just like a pure instanced system? Its really the same thing. Making fun of instanced loot as being in different dimensions is silly, this system doesn't make any less sense.

People found pure FFA to be unfair for class reasons and lag. So the devs did put the timer in to make it more fair on a "competitive level". The problem is that it still doesn't feel fair. The may as well be consistent and make it pure FFA so that people don't feel entitled seeing their names on the items.