You know what happens when your Reflexes turn to Iron?

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

I think that might be it, then. Sure, I may have 95% chance to evade arrows (easy to get with Arrow Dodging), but the archers have an insanely high accuracy to off-set it...

In which case, we're sort of back to the beginning, because what good is double the chance to evade if the enemy is already built to counter it? All this tells is that the standard chance to evade projectiles sans Arrow Dodging is much lower than listed...

Oh, it does my head in.

Right, it seems like this keystone simply negates the ridiculous accuracy and brings you back to square one.
Another indication that evasion needs an overhaul? I think so. At least the keystones for it...

Did some digging on the arrow dodging and monster projectiles.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

It doubles the actual chance, not the rating. Not that in general archer monsters have higher than average accuracy, so will hit more often than the estimated chance to evade in you character panel against an average monster.

There is a typo in here - not is supposed to be note. You can see that from the rest of the quote. And yep, looks like archers do wreck evasion builds. I took arrow dodging without even knowing this before and was wondering why archers still aren't too easy still.

And in addition to that.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Monster Projectile Attacks:
Snake Spit
Rocks from scavengers
Fire projectiles from scavengers
Sandspitter projectiles

Monster Projectile Spells:
Elemental skeleton projectiles
Vaal Constructs chaos projectiles

So I kinda guessed about vaal constructs, and I do have a problem with them - no way to dodge, no way to add chaos resist and hard to get out of the way with how fast projectiles are.

No way to evade elemental arrows does seem like a double standard because I seems to recall my own elemental arrows not always hitting...

So in conclusion archers do seem to mess with evasion builds a LOT.

"

vankeris wrote:

No way to evade elemental arrows does seem like a double standard because I seems to recall my own elemental arrows not always hitting...

So in conclusion archers do seem to mess with evasion builds a LOT.

Well, we can evade the skeleton archers' elemental arrows. The Vaal constructs' projectile has been designated a spell, not an attack. Which I think is a bit of BS, but whatever.

Acrobatics, as the keystone that removes all other defence options from an Evader, should take into account *all* projectiles and it should be calculated from Evasion Rating, and Phase Acrobatics should be scrapped altogether.

Unfortunately the current game mechanics don't allow for much of that.

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

Well, we can evade the skeleton archers' elemental arrows. The Vaal constructs' projectile has been designated a spell, not an attack. Which I think is a bit of BS, but whatever.

Acrobatics, as the keystone that removes all other defence options from an Evader, should take into account *all* projectiles and it should be calculated from Evasion Rating, and Phase Acrobatics should be scrapped altogether.

Unfortunately the current game mechanics don't allow for much of that.

Well Mark on a post I quoted above specified that skeleton elemental projectiles are considered projectile spells and spells can't be evaded. Did you actually happened to evade them?

I think by 'elemental skeleton projectiles' he's talking about the skeleton mages, not the archers. The skeletal archers definitely miss me quite a lot.

What about a keystone (or high level skill gem) that when you're hit, a small prompt appears somewhere on the screen, and you have to do a quick timed button press. If you're more accurate with the timing, the more damage is mitigated from that hit. The skill would be more effective the higher your dodge chance. The only thing close that I can think of would be like the fishing mechanic in Torchlight, but it would obviously be faster and a lot more difficult to time than that. The hit could always take at least half or three-quarters of the players life, and the prompt would be for how much of that last part of life left they save in order for them to retreat and regenerate.

It could only proc once every x seconds, and/or the higher your dodge chance, the more time you would have to press the button. Not too much more time though, as it would still have to be a relatively quick reaction on the player's part. I don't know if this would be considered OP or not, but it's an idea I guess, lol.

I just wish, that for every side post that devs write here, they'd write an answer to such threads.

I mean, look at this - 7 pages of extremely constructive feedback, worth-looking suggestions, and what are we left with?

I do not demand instant solution, I just wish someone stated - "Hey guys, this is some good feedback, we acknowledge this is a problem, and will definitely work on it for X patch."

Nothing more.

"

neonesis wrote:

I just wish, that for every side post that devs write here, they'd write an answer to such threads.

I mean, look at this - 7 pages of extremely constructive feedback, worth-looking suggestions, and what are we left with?

I do not demand instant solution, I just wish someone stated - "Hey guys, this is some good feedback, we acknowledge this is a problem, and will definitely work on it for X patch."

Nothing more.

Perhaps, but we know they're looking at 'survivability in general' and that evasion is very much a part of that. I certainly do not expect a GGG response for everything posted, or indeed many things. The main thing is each patch does take at least some of the things I've seen on these boards into account.

For me, that's more than enough.

Make it so a hit can only reduce your life by a certain percentage at X Evasion, make it like 30-45% at 95% evasion, so you still have time to chug pots?

Well, I bit the bullet and took IR on Charan at level 44, just to test it.

With Iron Reflexes and Grace, he has 4102 armour, granting 75% damage reduction and the natural 5% chance to evade. Still no chance to block, due to the sword (I'm really stubborn there).

When I remove Iron Reflexes, and only Iron Reflexes, it drops to 4095 evasion and only (this is an interesting bit) 60% chance to evade.

When I ran a test of Ruthless Fellshrine, I found I could do it as either style, but to be honest, with IR, I was drinking flasks a lot more simply because everything was hitting me. The way I play, very much hit and run, whirling blades, and flicker strike+frenzy if I'm feeling a bit ballsy, seems to work better with the evasion style. I'd rather have 6 or 7 of every 10 attacks miss and take the full brunt of 3-4 provided I can survive that 3-4. This I plan to achieve with lots of life and some regen.

So there you have it -- I've finally tried the skill I've railed against and wasn't really that impressed. It does what it says it should do, and I definitely saw my survivability increase, especially in the Fetid Pool, but overall, it didn't suit the play-style to which I've become accustomed over the past 40+ levels.

Still think it's lazy design and that Acrobatics/Phase Acrobatics need some love as the Keystones of Evasion, though.