Jun/betrayal mechanic feedback and suggestions

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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demon7310 wrote:

And for abyss its a different case. Abyss is only insane this league due to affliction, before it has always been about abyss jewels and the boss uniques.
The point of doing jun has been about farming aisling hillock vorici for a couple years now. The safehouse and boss uniques drop no matter what anyway.
It is an important piece of the crafting ecosystem.

Doesn't matter WHY abyss is insane, what matters is precisely the same reason why you have a problem with Jun. People see profit, then they don't, or they want more efficient profit. It's all the same problem in different skins. Players get to a point where they totally ignore the mechanic itself and only see $$$ in their eyes...

"The point of doing Jun has been about farming aisling/hillock/vorici for a couple years now": again....YOUR reason for doing Jun has been this, but that simply isn't true. Are they some of the best possible rewards you can get, ABSOLUTELY. But they are not the "point" of Jun. Collecting scarabs of any type, unlocking crafts, breachstones, Tora, even Guff, ALL have value to players. They just aren't valuable to YOU and YOUR strategy. Grabbing a fractured base and chaos spamming or essence spamming via guff can be CRAZY GOOD. It just takes longer than other things, so the min/maxers completely ignore it as "useless". Breachstones, to the player that does NOT buy 5-way carries, are still a hugely valuable source of bubblegum currency, maps, and huge amounts of exp. Not to mention the CHANCE at pretty good and valuable uniques.


Do I agree that all Jun encounters should be meaningful: yes. MAYBE an idea that makes it so 2 people always spawn by default would do this. I think this wouldn't do anything for people already complaining about Jun, and would change nothing. And also, from my experience, if you are tree specced into Jun then you almost NEVER see a single member by themself anyway. I personally think the "fun" in Jun is slowly building your board to your liking. It doesn't appeal to everyone and thats fine, but its one of the few mechanics that isnt just "kill everything as fast as possible for instant gratification" and thats a GOOD thing.

And for the record: are there problems with Jun? Absolutely!!! Certain rewards and members are way way way out of date and need updating. I just don't believe anything you posted are legitimate problems with Jun, because many of them don't actually exist. I do agree with you that leadership needs to be reworked. An easy fix I think is that leaders should be able to offer t4 rewards in a safehouse. No more double reward unless you run the mastermind, but still access to the t4.

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demon7310 wrote:

That's exactly how Jun worked before, and led to the problem that people would never run mastermind because they didn't need to since you could access rank 4 reward faster by becoming leader and running the safehouse without wiping your entire board and the relations you built up.

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exsea wrote:

4. all syndicate options STOP when mastermind is at 100%. but mastermind encounter is itemized like incursion temples.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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demon7310 wrote:

That's exactly how Jun worked before, and led to the problem that people would never run mastermind because they didn't need to since you could access rank 4 reward faster by becoming leader and running the safehouse without wiping your entire board and the relations you built up.

no....there WAS no Rank 4 reward. When Rank 4 was released, it was ALWAYS gated behind Mastermind. What I suggest is to make Rank 4 available, only for the leader, prior to the mastermind. But if you want multiple rank 4s in one run and one safehouse, you run the mastermind. Or if you get unlucky with leadership. It's NEVER worked that way before.

"frustrating because RNG"....welcome to PoE

10 maps to get exactly what you want is, what? 10 minutes max? 5 minutes if you only chase down jun missions? Oh the horror!

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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exsea wrote:

4. all syndicate options STOP when mastermind is at 100%. but mastermind encounter is itemized like incursion temples.

yeah this would be great, they should really do this asap and have the little thing list all the rewards that are in it the way incursion does.






i think my issue with this content is the same as the temple, its rewards rest way too heavy on a couple of outcomes, essentially on one outcome for the most which is aisling slam. vorici white socket has some side value, and im not talking purely economic but functional compared to time investment, and then hillocks increased quality.

so you got 1 big hit with aisling and it feels like 2 mini bits that are nice on the side. almost all the rest of it is just trash for the most. run ur scarab safehouse and it drops 4 scarabs... ok... last time i opened an operatives strongbox i got about 8, same with last time i killed a mob who dropped scarabs, people in my guild have dropped 80+ high tier scarabs off one mob in this league, ive seen people on stream get 700 high scarabs from a single map. this is just you run maps and these quantites of scarabs happen from nowhere, not even trying. but you get a safehouse all the way done and run it and then get 3 or 4 or 5 scarabs at times? its just so bad.




its the same problem incursion temple has. its all about the double corrupter, and then the gem corrupter is also nice. the boss of both can drop some nice things. but really it all just rests on this one reward that is by far and away the thing that makes the content worth while. i ran a top teir breach containment thing and ended up getting about 9 splinters or something from the entire room. total waste of time compared to other content in the game.



i think both of them need a reboot, ive been meaning to post about incursion with ideas for a long time now. im not as up to speed on betrayal but the only thing i ever have or ever would run that for is aisling and then white sockets/plus quality. maybe cats uniques as a boss she is fine, but the mechanic is kind of terribly balanced reward wise.

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demon7310 wrote:

I've started poe when betrayal was released but I didn't do it at the time so I'm not quite sure how it was at the start.
However I'm fairly confident that a long time ago the rank 4 reward was only on the leader position which is why I said that but I would ask for confirmation.

And no my maps don't last 30 seconds, I run jun harvest essence maven and i clear them. More like 4/5 minutes for some despite not doing affliction.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

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demon7310 wrote:

I've started poe when betrayal was released but I didn't do it at the time so I'm not quite sure how it was at the start.
However I'm fairly confident that a long time ago the rank 4 reward was only on the leader position which is why I said that but I would ask for confirmation.

And no my maps don't last 30 seconds, I run jun harvest essence maven and i clear them. More like 4/5 minutes for some despite not doing affliction.

Nope....the only thing leadership did was double the Rank 3 reward. Rank 4 was released SPECIFICALLY to bring meaning back to fighting Catarina. There was never any Rank 4 before that.

League 3.14: "We have improved the Betrayal reward system so that slaying the Mastermind is more worthwhile. Now, if the Mastermind is slain, her Immortal Syndicate Members drop their rewards at one tier higher than their current tier. This change introduces a fourth tier of reward from each member, and gives more reason to use a larger variety of Syndicate targets and safehouse leaders. Some of the best existing rewards have been moved to the fourth tier. We've also improved some of the less-interesting or less-valuable rewards."

Well again....thats YOUR choice to juice the maps you run to set up Jun. The more efficient way to do it is to just pop open a map, run and do whatever Jun missions you need, and then leave. Longest commitment there is running through the lab for Research, but overall takes about a minute to do all three Jun missions in a map. If even that.

So once again....the complaints are coming from how YOU choose to run Jun, but no actual fault with Jun or Betrayal itself.



Bringing in this league's "issues" of raining scarabs and other superjuiced drops is a non sequitur. That will go away as quickly as it came.