Feedback and Suggestions - [Camera] It's too close! - Forum

" Chris wrote: I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so please treat my reply only as a general response to the camera zoom issue - I'm sorry if I don't address specific comments that I may have missed. There are performance concerns with allowing the camera to zoom out further. It's an "n squared" relationship between the zoom distance and the number of objects that the game has to render. We're already looking into ways to make the game faster on old machines, and zooming it out further would undermine this. In the last year we've zoomed it out by 5% and 10% (after putting a lot of work into improving performance so that we have room to do this). We've balanced our ranged combat around the distance that players are able to attack. If we zoomed it out further, you would not be able to attack monsters that you see on the edge of the screen. There are also issues with the distance that objects are serialised to you from the server, so increasing zoom distance would increase bandwidth consumption and (marginally) server load. I understand that players abusing strange aspect ratios are able to see further than others, and this is something we're looking for a good solution for. I'd like to support further zoom distance in the future, but there are a whole lot of big things that will have to change before we can do that - ranging from performance to balance concerns. This is not something we're able to just change with a simple number. We recently compared our zoom level to other popular Action RPGs. When taking into account field of view and relative run speed, it wasn't too dissimilar. Informitive post as always, thanks. Last edited by Creation#7719 on Jun 12, 2012, 5:36:38 PM	Posted by Creation#7719 on Jun 12, 2012, 5:36:21 PM Quote this Post
I also think that The zoom its so closer. The archers needs a long bote to make their attacks. I think long zoom its a good idea. And a simply character editor brings to you more value than d3. Thanks for the game. Its fantastic!	Posted by Juanan#2984 on Jun 13, 2012, 11:58:34 AM Quote this Post
" Chris wrote: There are performance concerns with allowing the camera to zoom out further. It's an "n squared" relationship between the zoom distance and the number of objects that the game has to render. We're already looking into ways to make the game faster on old machines, and zooming it out further would undermine this. That is because of SHADERS. Shaders, shaders, shaders! If you'd listen to the community, and you'd added the option to disable the shaders which making everything plasticy and shiny, than we'd have waaay more performance. " Chris wrote: If we zoomed it out further, you would not be able to attack monsters that you see on the edge of the screen. There are also issues with the distance that objects are serialised to you from the server, so increasing zoom distance would increase bandwidth consumption and (marginally) server load. I'm sorry, but you're either really underestimating the capabilities of the engine or the engine is the worst there is - which I highly doubt. How do you want decent pvp's when you're saying the game is unable to handle actions from a couple of meters away? You can say that the zoom is good and it's very similar to others in the genre, but just look at the forum how many players are disliking it. The camera angle the developers has choosen sucks and changing it is virtually impossible so the least you can do is to compensate it with further zoom to actually being able to see things. Especially when there's so many trees, grass, rocks, etc everywhere that it's alone making the gameplay claustrophobic. I'm sorry for being harsh, but I really waited for this game, and I really like it, but I'm quitting it because I'm sick of my character is basically being blindfolded. I understand that the game as it is today can be enjoyable very much with melee characters, but I refuse to play them as I find them boring. I'm usually enjoying everything that is ranged, in every game, except for this one.	Posted by Agent#0157 on Jun 20, 2012, 8:19:31 PM Quote this Post
" Agent wrote: That is because of SHADERS. Shaders, shaders, shaders! If you'd listen to the community, and you'd added the option to disable the shaders which making everything plasticy and shiny, than we'd have waaay more performance. Would there not also be increased geometry, and increased texture demands as well? "I would have listened... I would have understood!" - Scion Have you removed Asus ROG/GameFirst yet?	Posted by MaxTheLimit#1114 on Jun 20, 2012, 8:48:54 PM Valued Poster Quote this Post
" Agent wrote: " Chris wrote: If we zoomed it out further, you would not be able to attack monsters that you see on the edge of the screen. There are also issues with the distance that objects are serialised to you from the server, so increasing zoom distance would increase bandwidth consumption and (marginally) server load. I'm sorry, but you're either really underestimating the capabilities of the engine or the engine is the worst there is - which I highly doubt. How do you want decent pvp's when you're saying the game is unable to handle actions from a couple of meters away? = He never said anything like that, he said increasing zoom distance increases bandwidth consumption and (marginally) impacts server load. Some people don't like the current zoom distance, some people do. the people who don't like X are usually more vocal about it than the people who do like X. It is a little condescending to tell the creator of a game that he doesn't understand the tools he used in order to create it. It is a little presumptuous to assume that you know more about the engine than the team working with it. It is never a good idea to write things in anger. "the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers." -GGG Happy hunting/fishing Last edited by Wittgenstein#0994 on Jun 20, 2012, 11:30:59 PM	Posted by Wittgenstein#0994 on Jun 20, 2012, 11:28:27 PM Alpha Member Quote this Post
" MaxTheLimit wrote: Would there not also be increased geometry, and increased texture demands as well? Yes, but the shaders alone require so much that the rest is not that important. " Wittgenstein wrote: He never said anything like that, he said increasing zoom distance increases bandwidth consumption and (marginally) impacts server load. Read what you have quoted. Especially the part about not being able to attack on the edge of the screen. " Wittgenstein wrote: Some people don't like the current zoom distance, some people do. Some people play melee, some people play ranged. Some people want to play on a competitive level, some people keeping it casual. Some people use the forum to try to improve the game, some people just quit it silently. " Wittgenstein wrote: It is a little condescending to tell the creator of a game that he doesn't understand the tools he used in order to create it. It is a little presumptuous to assume that you know more about the engine than the team working with it. Read again. I'm saying that I'm trusting the engine, but Chris seem to underestimate it. The game is not made by one person, it is made by a team. And those members have different knowledge. " Wittgenstein wrote: It is never a good idea to write things in anger. I'm not being angry, I'm disappointed. And it's never a good idea to argue just for argument's sake or to kiss ass, whichever motivated your unhelpful comment.	Posted by Agent#0157 on Jun 21, 2012, 6:28:00 AM Quote this Post
Diablo 2 Torchlight 2 Titan Quest Diablo 3 Path of Exile Side by side (though it's a bit hard to see here. You may want to download them first) it's pretty clear that, with the exception of D2, PoE definitely has less visible area than the other games, but not by much. Also worth noting is how much better PoE looks than any of the other games. Furthermore, I think the closer zoom makes combat in PoE more exciting. Honestly, I didn't notice it at all until people started complaining about it. I don't see how it's an issue at all. I think the people who care must be using CRT's with ungodly awful resolution. Last edited by teacherpeter#1699 on Jun 21, 2012, 7:38:30 AM	Posted by teacherpeter#1699 on Jun 21, 2012, 7:35:09 AM Quote this Post
" Agent wrote: " Wittgenstein wrote: He never said anything like that, he said increasing zoom distance increases bandwidth consumption and (marginally) impacts server load. Read what you have quoted. Especially the part about not being able to attack on the edge of the screen. " Wittgenstein wrote: It is a little condescending to tell the creator of a game that he doesn't understand the tools he used in order to create it. It is a little presumptuous to assume that you know more about the engine than the team working with it. Read again. I'm saying that I'm trusting the engine, but Chris seem to underestimate it. The game is not made by one person, it is made by a team. And those members have different knowledge. " Wittgenstein wrote: It is never a good idea to write things in anger. I'm not being angry, I'm disappointed. And it's never a good idea to argue just for argument's sake or to kiss ass, whichever motivated your unhelpful comment. I love the false dichotomy at the end there, masterful! I understand Chris doesn't make the game single handed, but he is the creator of the game, and as such I would expect he has a pretty thorough understanding of the game engine. Also, he took the time to respond to you, which he wouldn't have done if the subject matter fell outside his realm of expertise. Simply because I like the current state of the game (regarding the zoom level) and am willing to say so, is no less constructive than your post about it being to close. What Chris said is that IF they zoom it out further THAN people may not be able to attack at the edge of the screen. That has nothing to do with the current state of the game, but you made it sound as if the game couldn't currently handle PvP, and that isn't the case. "the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers." -GGG Happy hunting/fishing Last edited by Wittgenstein#0994 on Jun 21, 2012, 9:42:34 AM	Posted by Wittgenstein#0994 on Jun 21, 2012, 9:41:40 AM Alpha Member Quote this Post
I think the camera is good. It does not need to be moved away, the player is able to see the optimal area. I think this thread needs to be closed.	Posted by FLYBAT#0392 on Jun 21, 2012, 9:47:47 AM Quote this Post
" FLYBAT wrote: I think the camera is good. It does not need to be moved away, the player is able to see the optimal area. I think this thread needs to be closed. I agree with this post on all levels.	Posted by teacherpeter#1699 on Jun 21, 2012, 10:22:52 AM Quote this Post