⛵☁️[3.25] The Arachnophobia Allstars| Chaos Guardian CI|The dirty Scorpion-tail|Herald of Agony 100M

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mrflamee wrote:
Thank you for the amazing build, Chromino! 2nd time playing this build in the new league and it's so fun and tanky :)

For a 4 seconds cooldown triggerwand, any suggestions on what 3-link gems I should use for it?


Thank you a lot too mrflamee! Arachnophilia!

For triggerwand 2 set-ups are possible, spirit offering or minions.

In the tradelinks page 50 next to alternative triggerwand is the link. It's another minigame with hundreds of paths to squeeze in the best out of 4 possible buffs.

All triggerwand-set-up-tipps:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-post/24508050

sorry for wall of text:

Spoiler
There are 2 most valuable, different set-ups for cheap 8 sec triggerwand/ more expensive 4 sec triggerwand.
You trigger them with all your skills like ball-lightnings, storm brands, molten shell, withering step, other movementskills etc.

With triggerwands-set-up (3 skills) and cast when stunned set-up (3 skills) in the helmet the goal is to get most damage and most buff-uptime of 4 offensive buffs against bosses and 1 defensive skill and sniper's marks automatic triggered or other curses.

4 buffs:

1) the guardian-ascendancy 5-allies-onslaught buff
(mandatory needed first for our own castspeed and HoAg-virulences)

2) the 0-15 wither debuffs
(most damage minion-buff)

3) the spirit offering buff
(second best minion damage, against bosses needed in combination desecrate before triggered/ casted first)

4) the feeding frenzy buff
(most easy triggered, less damage)


1 defensive skill:

5) frostshield
(I prefer it in cws before in the worst case waiting 4/8 seconds for the shield)


0-15 Withers: For all set-ups it's best to get 9 of 15 possible withers with instant anomalous withering step. You can place it on lmb and also simultan on another second key. When you link it to increased duration or socket it into rare boots with increased duration you already max up big uptimes of withers.

Sniper's mark is permament cursing since 3.17 and you can self cast it when you prefer or want one more triggered buff/ skill

Then you can choose what you prefer in the triggerwand and what in the cws-links. It's like a minigame to find the best set-up:



A.) Spirit offering set-up, for both 8/ 4 seconds triggerwands:

1) You need most easy phantasms in your HoAg supports for your 5-allies ascendancy-onslaught-buffs.

Variation for the 5 allies-buff are other minions like zombies or spectres in a hungry loop-ring for example. Feed the hungry loop with meatshield, feeding frenzy, minionlife supports. Or link anomlaous skeletons, best with feeding frenzy, into 1-2 free cws-links.

2) Then you put 2 skills into the triggerwand: first most upwards socket desecrate to trigger it mandatory first, second socket spirit offering

3) In the third socket you put a curse like sniper's mark (but you can also selfcast it permament since 3.17 on bosses or link it in cws) or anomalous skeletons without capacity for feeding frenzy, a stone golem, or what you prefer

4) So you moved desecrate and spirit offering out of the helmet's cws links into the triggerwand. You have best uptime of spirit offering on bosses, without slow self-casting of desecrate.

5) You can use 2 skills like frostwall lvl 1, anomalous skeletons and feeding frenzy for your ascendancy-buff, more curses, a golem or what you prefer in your 2 free cws-links.



B.) Minion set-up, recommended better in a 4 second triggerwand because the minions die fast against bosses:

1) Put in your triggerwand (Anomalous) (vaal) skeletons or absolution. Every 4 seconds some minions are summoned. Link them to feeding frenzy.

2) Choose a third triggered skill or support like phantasms support, withering touch, desecrate for more corpses against bosses, stone golem for some taunts.

3) So you get your ascendancy buff, feeding frenzy, meat shields and some withers or corpses.

4) Activate vaal skeletons as multiple meatshields and on bosses for more withers. Use again anomalous withering step for more withers.


Without arakaali's fang of course you do not need writhing jar and get a free flask slot. Vessel of vinktar adds cheap and nice damage with shocks when you already use tempestshield shock-immunity. Bottled faith is b.i.s. with damage and recovery, but more expensive.

The best minions for applying 15 withers with withering touch and multistrike and most fast clearspeed for mapping remain the spiders of arakaali's fang. They also kill almost all mobs early on the edges of the screen before the mobs reach into the range to attack you.

Cold iron point dagger or trigerwands are strong too and were used in all older HoAg-builds. All set-ups are great. But a 4 second triggerwand is much better as 8 second. When you craft or get your triggerwand with +1/+2 gemlvls you reach also HoAg lvl 31 more easy and you can regret the 5 passives chaos-mastery in the full-damage-editions.

Last edited by Chromino on Feb 17, 2022, 12:44:47 PM
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mgcrywolf09 wrote:



Yeah i tried both pierce feels better, im also having an issue calculating EHP, i put my pob side by side with yours and your EHP is around 9mill but mine is at like 700k? I dont know if im blind and missing something as i have looked over it for the past hour and cant figure it out, also does the hunter influence on boots " projectiles pierce additional targets" work with herald of agony?


No, that boots-influence only affects youself. For minions always the tag "minions" has to be named in the buff, skill or gear.

Yeeaah, I guess too that sometimes the ehp-configuration is buggy in pob and pob focus very much on mitigation.


When I set-up your 3.17-guardian I get buffed in maps, awesome and impressive 22M ehp (with flasks and molten shell) calculated by pob, unbuffed without flasks and without all defensive skills still totally nice charming tanky 366k ehp. The ehp alternates much: against Shaper you have even much more ehp, against Sirus less ehp.


https://pastebin.com/hZKL4gaC

You need to configurate in the pob: activate your auras/ skills: discipline, grace and determination.

Overall your set-up is great. Improve to 80% coldresistances.


To compare for some clarity and for sciences: other builds here in exactly this forum title themself already as "tank" with buffed all flasks and vaal skills up 145k ehp and unbuffed 50k ehp.
Last edited by Chromino on Feb 17, 2022, 1:37:48 PM
hi have only 28ex in stash should be enough to decent tanky version ? i saw a lot of alternate heist gems etc .
With my necro i'm dying a lot ...

edit :ok just the fucking amu is 10ex ok bye i stop the league . Dunno how people get 300ex but clearly is not with just the altar scarab farming thing . I don't craft crazy item , this game is definitively out for me .
Last edited by Redeyesgeek on Feb 17, 2022, 2:00:41 PM
I have probably a very dumb question - on the "fullblock" versions of the tree i don't actually see 75% block, is it actually okay? Are you supposed to always have Rumi up?
I league started with this build, it was brutal grinding out 4ex for the Arakali's. The thing I love about it, is there is always a big upgrade that costs a few ex. It's not like you're saving up 100ex for a headhunter.
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Redeyesgeek wrote:
hi have only 28ex in stash should be enough to decent tanky version ? i saw a lot of alternate heist gems etc .
With my necro i'm dying a lot ...

edit :ok just the fucking amu is 10ex ok bye i stop the league . Dunno how people get 300ex but clearly is not with just the altar scarab farming thing . I don't craft crazy item , this game is definitively out for me .


With 28 exalts you will be almost b.i.s. geared.

Expensive stuff is aul's uprising, but you can also use the variations like cheap ashes of the stars, take a look page 50 in the trading links, there next to the amulet or in the pob the tree "lvl 90 before aul's uprising". For all slots are cheap variations to get. Expensive are the awakened and empower gems and au's amulet at the moment. b.i.s. shield implicit, b.i.s. watcher's eye, or b.i.s. armour can be extreme expensive too. But with 28 exalts you will be easy ready for lvl 100.

As far as i know the guardian-ascendancy is multiple times tankier as necros or occus. This build especially focus on tankyness and defences. The defensive layers, substain and recovery as well as ehp of the allstars are far ahead all other builds I know. Yes, it's a tanky build.
Last edited by Chromino on Feb 17, 2022, 3:21:51 PM
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MrOger wrote:
I have probably a very dumb question - on the "fullblock" versions of the tree i don't actually see 75% block, is it actually okay? Are you supposed to always have Rumi up?


Yes, there is the buff of rumi's counted in. I balanced in the updated pob into 100% all elemental ailments-immunities, see "fire and other ailments". It's much tankier in all my first tests as before balanced into a bit more es, but only 60-100% ailments-immunities.

When you prefer, balance some spellblock on the watcher's eye, on a cluster, on the tree, on the amulet-anoint or very easy on a large spellblock-cluster to get also alltime unbuffed 75% spellblock.
Last edited by Chromino on Feb 18, 2022, 7:53:08 AM
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Chromino wrote:
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MrOger wrote:
I have probably a very dumb question - on the "fullblock" versions of the tree i don't actually see 75% block, is it actually okay? Are you supposed to always have Rumi up?


Yes, there is the buff of rumi's counted in. I balanced in the updated pob into 100% all elemental ailments-immunities, see "fire and other ailments". It's much tankier in all my first tests as before with a bit more block and a bit more es, but only 60-100% ailments-immunities.

When you prefer, balance some spellblock on the watcher's eye, on a cluster, on the tree, on the amulet-anoint or very easy on a large spellblock-cluster to get also alltime unbuffed 75% spellblock.


It just the Rumi that's confuses me, like, i would expect that the whole idea is to max the block out without the "temporary" measures like Rumi. How big of an uptime it's going to be? (I've never played with sniper's mark before, so sorry about the needless questions, i'm just very confused)
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MrOger wrote:
"
Chromino wrote:
"
MrOger wrote:
I have probably a very dumb question - on the "fullblock" versions of the tree i don't actually see 75% block, is it actually okay? Are you supposed to always have Rumi up?


Yes, there is the buff of rumi's counted in. I balanced in the updated pob into 100% all elemental ailments-immunities, see "fire and other ailments". It's much tankier in all my first tests as before with a bit more block and a bit more es, but only 60-100% ailments-immunities.

When you prefer, balance some spellblock on the watcher's eye, on a cluster, on the tree, on the amulet-anoint or very easy on a large spellblock-cluster to get also alltime unbuffed 75% spellblock.


It just the Rumi that's confuses me, like, i would expect that the whole idea is to max the block out without the "temporary" measures like Rumi. How big of an uptime it's going to be? (I've never played with sniper's mark before, so sorry about the needless questions, i'm just very confused)


In maps it's almost 100% up. Craft it best "when charges reach full".

On bosses you have 2 and more uses ordinary, beside your molten shell, vaal discipline etc. There it's not optimal, but when you synchronize a bit with the damagepeaks, it's enough.

It's always a question of balancing and it's also possible to gear with a ordinary graniteflask and balance the large cluster or amulet anoint into permament capped blockings in exchange for a bit damage.

In my experiences the build starts somewhere with all auras, 6.5 k es, fullblockedition and around 65-70% spellblock to turn almost unkillable. As I studied that all normal guardians and bosses cannot kill the Allstars, when they use sometimes their molten shell they even don't need to move, at that point I decided to balance into damage instead into more ehp. When you take a look at the videos like factanking 2 minotauries, facetanking phoenix explosion, Sirus meteors in a8 with iron reflexes, critting strongboxes, drox and baran, tanking 2 bosses simultan in simulacrum wave 30 and so on, there are the good reasons why more tankyness is not needed for the build in almost all content.


But in normal maps 5M damage are more than enough and you can balance a lot more into defences with some clicks and clusters when you like to. It's also guided in "choose your edition": for the feared, unber elder and simulacrum wave 30 you should stack 10-15M damage, for all other content 5M or also less are enough and you can balance like you want into ehp.
Last edited by Chromino on Feb 17, 2022, 4:19:56 PM
So I've been running this build as my 2nd character in Archnemesis SC. I've put in a good amount of currency - enough that I feel it should perform as well as it can, with only a few remaining large-ticket upgrades (aul neck primarily). I'm running a slightly different variation using an Ancient Skull helm instead of Eber's, and I'm testing a 4-Link Spectre for mapping instead of a CWDT/frost shield setup (either arena masters for more speed, or charge monkeys + feeding frenzy buff).

The build feels absolutely fine for mapclear - plows through T16 content with juice, no problems. Very tanky, facetanks everything. The only thing that kills me instantly is the Exarch Alter "burning oil ground" which seems to kill anybody in a second anyway.

However, the single-target / bossing department for this build feels like utter trash. Honestly, for the amount of currency I've put in, it feels like terrible compared to some lower-budget starters I have played. Running 1 worm flask is fine for mapping, but on bosses (especially with immunity phases, which is like, every boss nowadays) it's absolutely miserable. I don't like the idea of having to swap to 2-3 worm flasks on bosses to feel viable.

The problem I find is, unlike Occultist/Necro variants, Guardian doesn't really get any minion duration. The spiders don't last long enough and I find myself often with 0 spiders up or only 8-10 during boss fights, relying solely on my HoAG to dish out damage.

A large majority of the time, I'll desecrate, throw down brands, be spamming ball lightning WHILE I pop worm flasks - and get no spiders, because the worms pop out BEHIND me (like 50%+ of the time) and don't get hit by me, or are sniped by the HoAG. I guess this is why many Arakaali builds use Divine Ire to trigger... the 360 degrees popping would be a godsend. So on average I'll need to use my worm flask 2-3 times to get 20 spiders. Not great.

I find I'm often running around a bossfight with 0 spiders waiting for my pantheon to restore some charges just enough to resummon spiders.

Here's my gear for reference... It's not GG endgame, but definitely not budget. For the currency invested, I feel like it should perform far better with less gimmicks.

(FYI I swap to Vile Toxins instead of Pierce in the HoAG for bosses. Pierce is better for trash clear. Vile Toxins boost PoB sheet DPS from 7M to 8M).

"


I also have a Watcher's Eye with Discipline / ES on Hit, 2 large clusters and 3 pure agonies. Also, I'm running boots with "Drops Brittle Ground while Walking" which doesn't calculate in PoB, but I believe is a massive DPS increase for your minions. 5% base crit is huge, and all it takes is you flame dashing on top of the boss every now and then. Mine only lasts 2 seconds but ideally, with the Grand Ichors, you can get it up to 4-5 seconds which is very reliable. Don't mind the boot enchant... just been too lazy to run labs.

Here's my PoB for those interested:
https://pastebin.com/ByrW8q1z


For the record, I have plenty of currency saved up from mapping - this build maps very well, and could easily afford Aul's necklace and a revamp of my gear now, but I don't think I'm going to minmax this any further. It's not a pleasant experience bossing on this character. Either I'm rerolling or making a 3rd character solely for bossing, and only using this HoAG/Spider character for mapping.
Cospri CoC Cold->Fire Trickster:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2576559
Divine Ire Trickster:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2459778
Last edited by KooperT on Feb 17, 2022, 4:57:03 PM

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