⛵☁️[3.25] The Arachnophobia Allstars| Chaos Guardian CI|The dirty Scorpion-tail|Herald of Agony 100M

Looking between this and [3.15] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

Very similar builds, but one runs HoP + cyclone vs HoA + ball lightning


From what I can tell this build ends up with less es (due to watcher's eye nerf)

Any other thoughts?
"
Kurnis wrote:
Looking between this and [3.15] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

Very similar builds, but one runs HoP + cyclone vs HoA + ball lightning


From what I can tell this build ends up with less es (due to watcher's eye nerf)

Any other thoughts?


Hi Kurnis,

yes, there is a lot same used gear like helmet, boots and and shield with vatinas great and amazing build.

Es is not the same, this build can anoint unnatural calm and use 2x split personality to get 800 es more than the very good HoP- build.

This build scales damage up with clusters and "pure agony", so it can use grace to double or even tripple ehp with blindings and vaal grace.
Instead with hatred or skillgemlevels this HoA build reaches in the offensive variant, with the same ehp as HoP, nice 3M more shaper damage (9M total, compared to the the HoP impale-variant with awakened multistrike and increased gemlevels on armour 4-6 M).

On page 50 are the stats to compare in the spoiler "HoA vs HoP", for example the ranged 4-6 projectiles of HoA instead HoP melee sentinels without aoe. The maths are from 3.14 and now circa 15-20% lower.


- HoA vs HoP -

Stats and styles of different
Heralds- and Managuardianbuilds


Spoiler

1) 70000 armour of Vatinas build of HoP against 140000 armour this HoA/ The Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars. This is important for some big physical hits. Here HoP don't have enough armour for big hits (see poewiki for armours dimishing returns. 140000 Ar of HoA is fitting much better with often 40% more physical damage reduction than only 70000 Ar).

2) 1400 against 2800 es/ block - HoA recovers faster and in damagepeaks much better

3) HoA is better scaleable for high damage with pure agony and virulences and 15 witherstacks, HoP offers only reduced cooldowns on medium clusters for their attacks.

4) HoP Sentinels dies often and must be raised again, it has also in melee range a lot of downtimes - HoA raised earlier with ranged attacks, and the crawler has much more area of damage with his long ranged projectiles also. You can scale up with 55-60 virulences easy against a small loss of added quality of life on one medium cluster or without double curses. Then the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars reach 3 mill. damage more as a typical HoP set-up. With cyclone you can move in small melee range, with spellecho of this Arachnophilia HoA build you have enough ball-lighnings everytime on the screen, but you have to stand 0.3 seconds to cast 2 of them. So cyclone is a bit smoother in movement.

5) HoA has with pierce support and helmet enchant much more, minimum around 4 times more total damage on mobs like in delve, blight, delirium, rituals or other high density areas. Count 4 x dps in mapping with it's tail projectilesattack (it is the HoA Standard attack with no cooldown) and pierce support and helmetenchant offers another 2x projectiles. HoP charge and slam attacks have cooldowns and only a small area of damage and no longe range. HoP offers no splash, only small melee area of damage and no pierce.

(For better comparing with equal defences of both builds count "hatred" in place of it's defensive "grace" for HoA in: 11-13 mill. total shaper- damage. HoP cannot obtain more auras because of not enough reduced manareservation. HoP must change gear, lower it's HoP-supports, change around 7 passives and use a different annoint to get more mana for another set-up. HoA has the possibility to switch in a second Circle of Nostalgia for more mana and dps and 8 up to 14 mill. damage shaper- singletarget damage and looses only frostwall for around 10.5 mill. damage or one Quality of life-skill and two passives (like raze and pillage or rotten claws) for around 12.9 mill. shaper-damage and 160 mill. mapping-damage.)

HoP is in single target around equal or around 10% increased damage, but only when The Arachnophobiacs are using their most defensive setup with 2-3 x more ehp than the HoP. The HoP movement is 60% slower and has less damageuptimes (first you have to reach melee the target with it cycloning). HoA can also change pierce if it is wanted for better singletarget, switch ring or support with hatred or freeding frenzy, but scaling more virulences stacks are recommended for raising damage in this build.

6) The weak spots like degens, aoe and not blockable hits are equal and are the same in both builds. HoA has in his setup an additional sulphurflask for the cooldowns of time of need and vaal discipline.
And of course don't forget numbers and factors of total damage taken, multiple mapmods, crits, etc. :

The more dodge, vaal grace, pantheon, evasion, phasing, overcapped resistances when you are debuffed and doublecurse (when you choose a defensive second one) of the allstars are not only a bit better than the very, very fine build of Vatinas, to reduce total damage taken:

For example you get often multiples damagetypes and sources, degen and hits or aoe at the same time of one boss or one mob and you have to count the total damage taken in these encounters and moments. And here the Agonyca Allstars are shining and charming hot with double and tripple ehp for all damage types.

7) I don't want forget two advantages of HoP in ehp and defence here at this comparing the tails and arms:

-the Sentinels can take damage as meat shield and can taunt. But only melee and they die fast in some encounters, maps and bosses and there are some disadvantages in playstyle as wrote before and in the build of the allstars spoiler "HoP". So for example HoP have also to deal with chained projectiles and so this advantage is in some other situations very dangerous.
When HoA takes Summon Phantasms-Support in the Allstars have 11 taunting and hindering and meatshielding Phantasms-minions too.

- you can move while cycloning. But as said before, for hard bosses the 2 possibilties of HoA's hybrid style: melee and ranged raising the Herald, is best to deal with high lvl 10x maven invitations, shaper, ueberatziri etc.) and with HoA you can easy switch to cyclone also. The Agonyca Allstars are able to stand outside high damage areas of bosses and stack the virulences ranged. Old HoP must cyclone melee in these damagepeaks.
When the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars take "storm brand" in they obtain almost the same freedom of movement and still don't need to to move into melee distance.

8) Fortify's 20% damagereduction of melee HoP is a minimum of 50% weaker compared against HoA divergent frost shield 30% dr and it's 60% dr against ranged attacks, and the added chill effect of frost shield results in -15 % attackspeed of melee mobs.
Combined with bodyguards/ knockback frostshield's 60% dr get very often op, and much better than fortify's 20% dr.
And also HoP has to attack and hit to trigger fortify, frostshield is triggered also ranged on stun and block and don't need to hit or attack.

9) Other managuardian builds get into problems when their molten shell, guardian skill or vaal discipline is in cooldown - the Agonyca Arachnophobia Allstars start then with their dodge and spelldodge of vaal grace and withering step for these cooldowns.

10) HoP is missing phasing, elusive, evasion, dodge, soul of solaris, vaal grace, overcapped resistances, double curses, movement speed and some more layers of defences and synergies of defences etc.

Overall

Total the Arachnophobia Allstars have double and tripple ehp against all damagetypes with their 17 walls of defences, and against physical damage quadruple ehp.

You have circa 4× more multipletarget damage and 3x more mappingspeed and 2x more substain / es on block. You loose around 5% singletarget but you can easy balance your damage up if you want to.


(see spoiler "Index of defences", see Path of Building for ehp)




https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3019705/page/50
Last edited by Chromino on Jul 28, 2021, 5:47:46 PM
Thank you very much for the detailed reply. After a lot of comparisons and going back and forth between pob's, I'm definitely using this build.

Thanks again and I'll post my progress in a couple days!
It's one of the easiest builds to level to 100. Just shield charge and run poorjoys, lol. 28m xp per hr in full party for t14 poorjoy @lvl 99.
bitch about a niche game? lol.
each new league is a circus of nerfs and buffs.
where is the element of fun in discovering the unknown in this game?
Last edited by helloicanseeu on Jul 29, 2021, 12:13:27 AM
Yea i have 400 unreserved mana..
If i take off discord artistant i dont have enough mana for HoA
Also i can't use grace yet, but that's ok..

Maybe i'm missing something but yes i have 2 rings.. i will try to get both rings to 19% res red each

let me know if there's something i can do about it :(
"
SwiftyOwns wrote:
Yea i have 400 unreserved mana..
If i take off discord artistant i dont have enough mana for HoA
Also i can't use grace yet, but that's ok..

Maybe i'm missing something but yes i have 2 rings.. i will try to get both rings to 19% res red each

let me know if there's something i can do about it :(


400 unreserved mana is much too much!
To benefit most from memory vault and ascendancy limit your unreserved mana to 37-90, you get armour and es in exchange for reserved mana as managuardian (see also spoiler "manamanager" last step 8) ).

For example regret 3 points souvereignity or anoint the amulet with charisma and regret 6 passives discord artisan.
Last edited by Chromino on Jul 29, 2021, 8:14:12 AM
Good morning, I have two questions about the changes in pob:
1 - Why don't we use Spell Echo anymore?
2 - Why is the amulet with Hatred if we don't use this aura in the build?

The version I'm looking at is the Boss-Hunter 60 Edition.

Thank you in advance for the answer!
Anyone here doing endgame? (t15-16) How does the dps feel like ?
"
radius540 wrote:
Good morning, I have two questions about the changes in pob:
1 - Why don't we use Spell Echo anymore?
2 - Why is the amulet with Hatred if we don't use this aura in the build?

The version I'm looking at is the Boss-Hunter 60 Edition.

Thank you in advance for the answer!


Hi radius540,

let's sting again, hehehehe!

1 - storm brand with faster casting or chance to poison integrated in gloves offer 30 virulences singletarget while moving. It's nice for faster levelling or for some bosses like maven.
When you need more damage, cast both ball-lightnings and 3 storm brands for 60 virulences. The set-up is in gloves in the spoiler "gear, skills, links".

It's still possible to stack instead more cast speed with (anomalous) spellecho, both links work great.

Take the style you prefer.

2- only in the Edition "make hatred, not grace" 9 M shaper-damage should be hatred instead grace. I check later on desktop if I messed it up, hehe.

In the editions 5 and 6 M damage grace is used for much ehp with phase acrobatics or much armour and es/ block with iron reflexes.

Last edited by Chromino on Jul 29, 2021, 8:44:45 AM
"
Chromino wrote:
"
SwiftyOwns wrote:
Yea i have 400 unreserved mana..
If i take off discord artistant i dont have enough mana for HoA
Also i can't use grace yet, but that's ok..

Maybe i'm missing something but yes i have 2 rings.. i will try to get both rings to 19% res red each

let me know if there's something i can do about it :(


400 unreserved mana is much too much!
To benefit most from memory vault and ascendancy limit your unreserved mana to 37-90, you get armour and es in exchange for reserved mana as managuardian (see also spoiler "manamanager" last step 8) ).

For example regret 3 points souvereignity or anoint the amulet with charisma and regret 6 passives discord artisan.


If i regret sov - i can't use determination or discpline..
i also took off discord artistan and put one more uncompromising..
now i have 394 mana unreserved LOL

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info