0.10.3c Patch Notes

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MajorThor wrote:

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Harmster wrote:

Good call, couldn't agree more.

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you dont let the people themself decide how they want loot distributed

I just felt like adding this, ARPGS aren't MMOs where you can change how loot is given...I cannot even put into words just how overbearingly maddening it is to hear that the new generation of ARPGs fanbase don't want to actually work for it (gear.)

Things change. People evolve. Otherwise we'd all still be dragging our knuckles along and picking insects out our buttholes. Don't fear change (or get mad at it). It's almost always positive. And it is built into our nature to improve ourselves. And finally....it is inevitable.

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MajorThor wrote:

...instead of having to fight tooth and nail for gear.

What fight? can 2 characters fight to the death for the loot?
No!, not even for just a little scratch. No consequences for taking anything.

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MajorThor wrote:

CUTTHROAT, which is what GGG initially said they wanted.

What cutthroat? can 2 characters cut eachothers throat for the loot?
No!, not even for just a little scratch. No consequences for taking anything.

So no fight and no cutthroat at all.
I don't know what you're dreaming.

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MajorThor wrote:

...don't want to actually work for it (gear.)

But they DO work for it (gear) by killing monsters.

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wrathmar wrote:

Which is why they need to add the ability to go hostile if someone grabs your allocated loot; Cut Throat!

YES!!!! Hostility Declaration = Amazinnnggg!!

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mushioov wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

Whaaat?

He only read the "They made it more FFA" part and disregarded the rest, like a true ADHD-warrior would.

So, loot remains instanced (ie mine) for 1 second longer but the net result is a less instanced system? Wow. That is some brain-washing job they did on you.

Next you can explain how removing names and instanced blues (ie less clutter, everything now easier to see, especially now its easier to spot YOUR loot once you tune in) counts as more FFA.

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Kortak wrote:

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riptid3 wrote:

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Thalandor wrote:

Has anyone considered how new players will have little clue as to how looting works, since there's no timer/names? Not everyone read these boards... They'll catch on eventually, but its really not intuitive.

There's nothing they need to know. If the loot is grayed out they can't get it, once it's no longer grayed it's fair game. I think it's you that does not understand how looting works, despite it being intuitive.

your opinion.. this loot system is from the dark ages and thousands of games have already evolved to much better loot options.

Still GGG wants to keep this old ninja loot system with no choices

It's not my opinion. The system is cut and dry. If you can pick it up it's fair game if you can't it's not. Not sure where my opinion on the matter is stated at all.

However, what you responded with was an opinion and you're welcomed to it. Regardless of how dense I think it is.

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GhostlightX wrote:

Things change. People evolve. Otherwise we'd all still be dragging our knuckles along and picking insects out our buttholes. Don't fear change (or get mad at it). It's almost always positive. And it is built into our nature to improve ourselves. And finally....it is inevitable.

This is an argument you see used over many different topics and it's usually in an attempt to validate their pov.

Newsflash. The wheel is still round.

Change isn't always positive nor is it always negative. In addition, it's not always needed. You'd have to be a moron to think otherwise. Next time, try arguing with valid points rather than regurgitated generalizations that are out of place. You'll have more of a chance influencing a change in your favor.

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Egren wrote:

tl;dr, I believe this change was for the worse. Let the loot rules be set by the party, don't force the players into something they don't like.


This turned into quite the wall of text. I apologize, but I didn't want to leave anything out. the tl;dr above still pretty much sums my opinions up. Below is my explanation.

I appreciate the attempt of making the game more enjoyable through this kind of changes, but this time, I would have to say it was a miss.

###How it was then

One of the issues when playing in a party is that other people, if you're not fast enough, can simply take the items that were meant for YOU. While some might like the competitiveness of this mechanic, it makes it *unfun* to join public parties since, well, that Divine Orb that just dropped was meant for you, but someone else just took it because you weren't fast enough!

This is why, when I (and probably MANY others) play, I only play with friends I know I can trust. This in turn means I'm usually playing solo or with one or two friends. I would love to team up with more people but I don't want them stealing my items.
It still isn't perfect, since some items don't belong to a player when dropped, and alot of those still hold considerable value. Which makes it impossible to solve who gets the item, apart from, yes, simply DIVING for that item (yet again an unfun mechanic).


###How it is now
Extending the timer on the items was a good thing, but I believe everything other change to the loot rules was wrong. Here's why:
1. Removing the nametags from the items: On alot of occasions, I've seen a rare/unique/orb that belongs to another player, but he or she doesn't see it. In my play group we used to let that player know there is a (potentially) valuable item that belongs to them. This is now impossible, as I can't tell which of my friends actually has dibs on that item! This causes alot of frustration for us, since we want to honor the nametags, but now it's become impossible at times. This already happens with items that drop when NO ONE sees it. But the change has made this happen even when one or even several people see the item.

2. Making magic items free for all: This change is what I was most surprised about. Like I said, in my play group we don't like that we *have* to dive for valueable items because it doesn't belong to anyone. This includes any 6-socketed items (7 jeweller's is worth nearly 1 chaos), and then even worse for 5-links and ugh, 6-links.

Before, I was actually hoping that EVERY SINGLE ITEM that dropped would have a name tag on it, so that these "problems" would NEVER occur when playing with my friends. My jaw literally dropped (That's gonna take some extensive surgery right there) when i read the patch notes that name tags had been removed from magic items.


Before I end this, I'd like to explicitly answer your feedback questions:

1. Was it easier to read what items drop now that fewer are allocated and the size of the item hovers doesn't change?
For me (we're usually only 2-4 players so the quantity of items isn't that insane) it's become slightly worse, but trimming down the textbox sizes does have it's merits. I'd like to see some minor change to the text on the grayed out items though, to more easily discern them from what's actually yours. (make items allocated to other players more visually discinct from "your" items, perhaps by a red line under the item name, or whatever)

Does the increased allocation duration help enough in terms of being able to grab items in time assuming you react quickly?
Yes. But I still don't like the timer at all. I wish there could be a cleaner solution. (letting each party change these settings as they see fit would make everyone happy!)

THIS

/thread

1) No longer assigning magic items helps keep item names on-screen for bosses / dense packs. Definitely appreciated.

Otherwise, its slightly harder for me to read what has dropped. Before, I'd have a larger visual cue (including my name), and could focus on the color of the item, then name. I now feel like I'm scouting for smaller targets, which is a bit harder. This has slowed my response time to loot, but I may need more time to adjust.

2) The increased duration helps, assuming the entire group is clustered together.

Once the group spreads out a little, nobody is able to call who should get first shot at a drop. In play with friends, before, we could call "x, orb", that player could quickly react, and get their loot. As a result, partying in our group of friends just got a little less pleasant.

my group has more than 3 quantity - 100%+/rarity -175%+ (both can go much higher) geared people who constantly last hit everything, we still get clutter and we r still missing who some items belong to even before the patch. it has now only became MUCH worse without names. we have specific people run up, down, left, and right so that we can get the names of every ones loot because we choose to use teamwork and fairness. rares that drop r simply ID'd throughout maps (we r forced to leave several on the ground) and given to whoever can use it or put into someones stash for selling or safekeeping for those who may not b online at the time. GGG is making a change that is TOO drastic after they have already shown PoE as having potential to be somewhat team-based with names on loot, not to mention they want guild support before the end of the year. to completely take that away ruins the game that some of us thought we were playing.

now im not saying this was a bad change overall. we should b given the option to have names back (mainly on orbs and uniques), nothing more. we dont care about how long the names last bcuz we already found a system that works with the short duration of labels. yes we might b a bit slower then more "efficient" groups but to us that has no effect on our gameplay. if our "fun" comes from everyone succeeding equally (through RNG drops) then so b it. that is the game we were playing and still want. give us that back. enough of this system that is taking the game in the wrong direction for the guilds GGG hopes to keep through the year.

Is it just me or are there considerably less public groups for maps since the change?

Disclaimer: I've already played with the new loot system in place. I have not read this thread in it's entirety (I did make it to page 24 from the beginning).

First, to respond to Chris's inquiries regarding specifics:
I did see that this change helped reduce visual clutter associated with massive quantities of loot. However, I feel that the biggest contributor to that was simply taking the magic items out of allocation. The change to the timer length is hard to gauge, given the removal of the timer bars.
I also feel that removal of names and timers has only added confusion overall, especially in 'gentleman' loot groups, who like to play friendly and inform team members when loot drops for them.


1 - I suggest adding client side options for display of timers and names. Ideally, granular enough to where I would be able to choose to display a timer if it is my item, or the name if it is for someone else.

I primarily play with friends in premade groups. I do not like the forced removal of names or timers. I understand that there are people who prefer FFA loot (just like Diablo 1/2). I also understand that there are people who prefer Diablo 3's instanced loot (I agree with the dev's on this specifically. It is intrinsically more exciting to get a legendary drop when everyone at least has a chance to glimpse it prior to it being picked up).
Having read some of the dev comments regarding loot, I appreciate their 'vision', but as has been said, there are times where you have to be more fluid regarding your project.
I assume that they would like to make more money (as opposed to less), and I feel that this patch (while potentially experimental in nature; it ~is~ still in beta, after all) is not the right direction to go.

There is clearly a significant amount of people who prefer to play with the existing loot system, and have adapted to a 'gentleman's loot rule style of play. My group of friends are among these. To that end, we adapted (as many did) to honoring the allocation past the timer, as we prefer everyone be focused on the fight at hand instead of the loot. But, again, this style is not for everyone (clearly).

One option that has been discussed is 'instancing' loot, a la Diablo 3. As I said above, I do not feel this is the way. From a technical perspective, I can see this would be moderately challenging to implement, plus, it would have a severe impact on the economy. An easier, less directly impactful solution would be...


2 - Enable party leader choice of loot distribution systems.
I.E. Choose complete FFA loot with no allocation whatsoever, or current system of allocation, or perma-allocation where item belongs to whoever until they pick up and drop it, or leave the vicinity. This would only apply to gear, not currency, for the best results. Also, having a choice in the types of loot considered for allocation would be great.

I sincerely endorse putting the choice into the players hands. Information regarding the looting rules should be readily visible in some fashion. Easiest way would be to put it under the league/map information when you have the map full-screened. A more preferable option would be (in case of public groups) have the information displayed on the group description or hover-over, so you would know before joining.
(As an aside, to prevent douchebaggery, notify all party members if the leader changes loot type, and only make the change after a small timer. i.e. Party leader changes it to FFA, 5 seconds later, all drops are then FFA)


3 - Add a mechanic to the allocated loot timer where if the person is actively giving or receiving damage, the timer gets extended.
This can either be done by simply adding (for instance) a half second, or pausing the timer countdown for a duration while they are actively in combat. I feel that with some tweaking, this would go a long way to ensuring that those who are busy doing the actual fighting are having a fair shot at loot that drops for them.

In conclusion:
I'm sure the 'loot ninja' community will not care for my first and third suggestions, but at the least, giving the option to choose loot style should be universally appealing. Face it, not everyone plays the game the same way, and you do ~not~ want to alienate half of your community just to please the remaining half. Simplistically put, that's like saying you only want half the money.