Cyclone

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kodr wrote:

@Torin: I'm more interested in YOUR feedbacks :p
how are you doing in fellshrines?
do you leech enough mana with warlord's mark?
I guess it will be easier if you can get some leech on your gears, that's what I did.

About the crit, well... static blows and crit aren't calculated the same way.
like every other skills, the crit is rolled only when you use the skill. If the skill rolls a crit, all the following hits will crit (if the crit isn't downgraded because of the accuracy vs evasion roll).
I think with static blows, it's per hit.

But yeah, your build may work, that's why I'm interested to know.
The build with static blows uses elemental proliferation to speed up the shock stacking process.

Well fellshrine is easy, I can kill whites in two passes; I noticed whites die faster less of them there are, like if I cyclone through one of them he will almost always die from one pass, but if I cyclone through a group of same ones, a really small number dies from one pass...

For champions I put some curse and cyclone until they die. I got a granite and instant heal on low life flasks, takes 4-6 cyclones but they die. Rock monsters take longer to die, champion ones I need to viper strike to kill, and rare rocks I skip half the time.

When I crit with cyclone I obliterate anything in path (and set them on fire), when I have all the wanted crit passives and I will crit a bit more often.
Life on hit I get from Claws in enough to replenish lots of life for now, but it will probably not be enough later. I am thinking or maybe removing mana leech support and use Blood Magic support while putting all my auras on mana. I would not be able to use Viper Strike anymore, but I would probably be able to spam Cyclone a bit more. Maybe I do that as an experiment later.

As for skill itself, desyncs are irritating. Almost always enemies get damaged after I pass through them, sometimes not at all (which sucks when I depend on mana leech). Sometimes I get stuck and unable to continue cyclone until I change my position. Sometimes I get frozen mid cyclone. When everything is working OK, skill is a lot of fun, unfortunatelly 50% of time I fear for my life :( (and I also at this stage don't feel like damage is enough to account for the amount of attacks that I suffer). I did comparable damage with my 1 handed+shield LS+WED+Chain+Mana Leech Shadow and at a range never really being in real danger.

ok :)

well, at some point, you'll have life leech on claws, maybe it will be better.
do you think it's worth to spec into crit?

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kodr wrote:

ok :)

well, at some point, you'll have life leech on claws, maybe it will be better.
do you think it's worth to spec into crit?

Life leech on claws is useless, it only works with physical damage.

I don't know if it is worth specing into crit, I will tell you once I am lvl 73 :D

Well I was wrong, I don't one-cyclone single mobs in fellshrine afterall :D
I guess not enough DPS. I hope my dps will skyrocket once I get the weapon elemental damage cluster at templar start


EDIT:

IMPORTANT!!!

Can anyone that is using RT do a little test.
I would ask someone with this to remove Resolute and with the fairly low hit chance see if they miss whole groups of enemies with one cyclone or hit whole groups of enemies with one cyclone.

This test would provide us with knowledge if there is only one accuracy roll per skill use. If there is only one, that makes this skill terrible as if you use this skill without RT you will get situations when you roll through groups, and leech noting and die as result.

Why I cannot test it? Well I got a high hit chance, so when I do miss (rarely) I cannot be sure it is not desync. Someone that removes RT will miss more consistently and can be sure when it is miss and when it is desync.

Also it would be good to test it against groups of identical enemies and mixed groups.
If my theory is correct when you start Cyclone game rolls one accuracy roll and checks that against evasion of all targets in your path. If targets have different evasion scores some will get hit and some will not and I am sure identical enemies all have same evasion scores.

I thought about something tonight, since you're dual wielding, did you try to use something else than faster attack?
I guess my idea may only work with physical build, but DW gives 10% MORE attack speed, and with the high attack speed from Cyclone, I thought we could use something else to boost the dps, like more physical damage.

or maybe ele proliferation in your case.

Hi there.
I decided to try this skill, so here is my feedback according to this post:

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Rory wrote:

Make sure you concisely state your character build, level, and other complimenting abilities you have when you talk about a skill - The more we know about your character, the better we can understand your feedback.

First of all, I must say I am not high level, so take my feedback for what it is (middle level). As soon as I reach high level I will post again, and my opinion will or will not change. So my feedback is not for an end game (I prefer to be clear about this before someone flame me or something).

We are here to test and feedback, so:

*I'm level 49 Marauder. I play in hardcore, alone. Decided to try cyclone build with 2 handed mace. At the moment I only got the basic passives (BM, cannot be stunned, cant miss, some highspeed, and life). Planning on getting more speed later, and area increase and +2 new passive duelist range.

*I Love the aspect of the skill, and function. The most fun skill in PoE till date for me. No issues here.

*I don't mind doing less damage than others skills. It's imposible to every skill to do the same damage. And if this skill surpasses cleave, then noone will use cleave. So I think buffing everything is wrong.

*About the compare between cleave/leap slam/ground slam and cyclone, my think is some of you guys are trying cyclone with a build and gear that fits other skills. My suggestion is to try new builds suited for cyclone. Yeah I know some people have tried, so Im only telling this to guys high level that just changed "insert A skill here" for "cyclone" and complain about it. Ofc you maybe are right, but I think the smart thing to do it just make new character and test it with new build. This is a beta after all, our "mission" is test new things and provide feedback, I guess.




Well, as a summary in my short experience:


LOVE:
*I like the skill function as I said. Remember about old d2 days. I absolutely like the effect and the short spins, and how you now are able to do short spins or long spins if you prefer. You got the decission, this is good for a skill and a game.

*Damage looks ok at least at my level. Remember I am not talking about endgame functionability of the skill, just providing feedback in the middle range. So, for lets say, level 30-50, I think the damage is correct, even with not many links. I use is linked only to add fire damage + life leech + life on hit gems. It kill right fast (remember, at this level).

*I use bloodmagic. I am not having any issues with cost at THIS moment. Pretty safe.



DON'T LIKE:
*For some reason (should be desync, should be a target problem), the skill looks to stop when you reach some monsters. It looks static monsters. It happens too frequently and I think this is a problem. May be just me adapting to the skill, but I see a little issues here.

*Its a bit hard to move through doors, corridors and stairs, and narrow places. Also in open space, when a little obstacle stops you. Even if I got the key downed, my movement stop. And its not easy to move again in some places. Other games got skills similar to this and they solve this issue with no problem at all (d2 for example).

*Deync make this skill even worst than others. I know this is not the palce to talk about desync, but I really love this skill and desync is making my life in hardcore dangerous with this skill. Cyclone and survival depends a lot on leech and constant hitting, so sometimes you thinkk you are hitting are you are in another place --> close to die sometimes. So it looks dangerous at the current state in the game.




QUESTIONS:
*My question about this skill is about the movement. I have read before from you devs that slow movement help with hitting. I am using 0% movement boots because of that, but I realize than when I target a boss and cycloning around him (or into him), if I press my quicksilver flask I move faster and kill him in less time than if I dont use the quicksilver.

So I think what you said its the opposite from my experience: I got a feeling that if you got insanely high movement speed and face a single boss and target him to death, you will kill him easily than if you move slow.

Also, I think a quicksilver helps qith survival against mobs, because of the fast speed you can avoid projectiles and melee hits because you move fast past them. If I dont use quicksilver, I receive more hits and damage.

So I wonder if its better or not to have fast movement. From my experience, it looks like contrary to what devs said, movement is good. Maybe it was bad before the last patch, with the old cyclone. But with the new, shorter spins, it looks (for me) that high movement looks very important for this build, if you have the mana (or life if Blood Magic) to sustain the spins.

Any other got opinions about this? I would like to read what other guys think about this with their experience, and what devs think about it too.




OVERALL:

Really pleased with the skill. Even if it needs an adjustment in high end game, and even if it stays as it is, I enjoyed a lot leveling with this skill. So even if I dont use it at level 70ish (which I dont know actually), it is providing an insane ammount of fun while leveling. Even with the desync issues.

For me, a skill that provides some fun, even if its for low level only, or only at middle, or only in specific builds or situations, its a win win. Fun is what games are for, imho.



Hope that helps. Take care.

And sorry for my bad English. I tried my best.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

"

Torin wrote:

This test would provide us with knowledge if there is only one accuracy roll per skill use.

We already know this isn't the case. :)

Can you provide more details and/or links that prove this?

@Valmar: when you travel slower, you will hit more times enemies during the same cyclone.
having movement speed is more a balance between damage, sustain and control.

With Blood Magic, you don't have a problem with sustain, but it can be a problem with mana. Without movement speed, you will hit more times without having to cast again cyclone, which will cost less mana in the end.

Damage wise, it's about the same if you don't mind using Cyclone back and forth. You may need one cyclone without movement speed, but 2 cyclones with MS.

And control... you may want to finish your cyclone sooner than later. It's also a bit easier to cast your next trajectory with a bit less MS.


I don't use movement speed boots but I have Leather and Steel, I don't have the -14% malus if I use an armor and shield.