Cyclone

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Melly_me wrote:

There's a lot of childish behaviour, coming from both sides.

I'm on the side that considers this skill underpowered and I'm not sure how GGG can say it's very powerful. Maybe they can show us an effective spec? I've tried the skill myself and watched a couple of streamers, and like me they had great difficulty making the skill seem nearly as effective as any of the other AoE options for melee. I watched Kripparrian ditch Cyclone while farming Ledge and instead use Whirling Blades, with the same supports he designed to use with Cyclone, and clear it nearly twice as fast. That just looked a bit sad.

The skill's tooltip also is either bugged or poorly designed. Why does it show offhand damage while using a 2-hander?

I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining. I tested the skill, saw other people testing the skill. It's not good enough. Every other melee AoE feels impactful and effective out of the gate, even Whirling Blades if you want to use it has its advantages, especially if you stack attack speed. Cyclone doesn't, not for the cost and danger of using it.

I'm pretty optimistic though. They buffed Incinerate, because it needed a buff. I'm fairly certain Cyclone will see a buff sometime soon as well.

I'm going to break this down a bit.

1. the tooltip is incorrect as with whirling blades (as the part of the skill function it is hard to calculate the actual damage, but the tooltip is WAY off).
2. it makes you IMMUNE to stuns
3. the fact that it slows you is actually a good thing with high enough attack speeds (as it lets you get more swings off on mob packs).
4. Supported on my build which does each elemental damage it is amazing with ele proliferation
5. other good supports for this spell are melee physical damage, weapon elemental damage... the list goes on.
6. you can still use flasks while spinning (Granite anyone?)
7. it is fun as hell to play typewriter with cyclone and whirling blades
8. crit builds also make amazing use of this skill.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/234920/page/1 is the build i am currently using on it and I am damn near un-killable. (even with the low amount of life i have roughly 1300 currently in merciless act 1).

EDIT: I can't put up a video as my hardware does not like to run the game and fraps or xsplit at the same time I apologize.

Edit 2: I aim to run this in a 5l or 6l when i get it, like this
Cyclone > faster attacks > elemental proliferation > melee physical > added fire damage > LGoH or life leech depending on how much physical damage i can pump out and which works better.

^ I am already running wrath and hatred the added fire is simply to get the 3rd elemental debuff and more damage.

Edit 3: If they buff it man... icing on the cake. Oh and with mind drinker and 2% mana leech from gear I can run this skill non stop as long as I have something to hit.

Rhoas, assault banners, elite blackguards you know those pesky charge mobs that used to chain stun lock certain builds, granite flask and cyclone into them. They aren't an issue anymore.

My only complaint is the LGoH and damage effectiveness nerf/balancing. It still fills my health bar but no where near as fast as my whirling blades position reset to cyclone again.

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Killurself wrote:

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aaronsan wrote:

^This.

You guys just keep on not using cyclone, that's fine by us. We'll look cool and mop up mobs for you while you ooh and aah. No one I've played with yet has had anything but good things to say about my support of the party with cyclone.

;D

-Aaron

If you could be so kind would you mind posting a video of you "mopping up everything" with Cyclone in some endgame maps? Maybe it would help school all of us "bads" on what exactly it is we are doing wrong. If not could you please start posting constructively and try to keep the insults to a minimum? It would be wonderful if it didn't sound like an argument between high school children in here.

LOL so are we saying it doesn't LEVEL well enough, or it's just never good enough, sucks, boo-hoo? I'm not ON end-game maps, I clearly state where I'm at right now. But I'll do it again.

I'm now a level 40 duelist (duelist!!!!) dual-wielding swords ATM.

And I hate to say it but at least mid-level this conversation is over. I just played in a team of 6 in an area at my level, ship graveyard, with no one from the team in there with me.

I had no trouble at all, never got below half health, often just used cyclone back and forth across the enemies even (gasp) with life on hit which others said is "useless" with cyclone.

It was ******not****** useless. As I said, the game was set (and the area was set by the team) for 6 players and yet I had no trouble cleaning it up.

As for maps some others on here have posted about their maps experience. Don't make this a "be quiet, noob" argument or you're being childish yourself. I'm not at maps yet. Nor is my cyclone level 15 yet ;P

It works, it's a powerful skill, and for now it makes a lot of sense for my build, any amping up would make it OP. Tested and proven in my game at least.

Now stop making us defend it so hard or they just might NERF it! Geez! Try it with a different build, try it with some strategy. Maybe it's not a mindless skill, and maybe like many on here that's what you like. So be it. It WORKS.

-Aaron

"

DarkNRG wrote:

"

Melly_me wrote:

There's a lot of childish behaviour, coming from both sides.

I'm on the side that considers this skill underpowered and I'm not sure how GGG can say it's very powerful. Maybe they can show us an effective spec? I've tried the skill myself and watched a couple of streamers, and like me they had great difficulty making the skill seem nearly as effective as any of the other AoE options for melee. I watched Kripparrian ditch Cyclone while farming Ledge and instead use Whirling Blades, with the same supports he designed to use with Cyclone, and clear it nearly twice as fast. That just looked a bit sad.

The skill's tooltip also is either bugged or poorly designed. Why does it show offhand damage while using a 2-hander?

I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining. I tested the skill, saw other people testing the skill. It's not good enough. Every other melee AoE feels impactful and effective out of the gate, even Whirling Blades if you want to use it has its advantages, especially if you stack attack speed. Cyclone doesn't, not for the cost and danger of using it.

I'm pretty optimistic though. They buffed Incinerate, because it needed a buff. I'm fairly certain Cyclone will see a buff sometime soon as well.

I'm going to break this down a bit.

1. the tooltip is incorrect as with whirling blades (as the part of the skill function it is hard to calculate the actual damage, but the tooltip is WAY off).
2. it makes you IMMUNE to stuns
3. the fact that it slows you is actually a good thing with high enough attack speeds (as it lets you get more swings off on mob packs).
4. Supported on my build which does each elemental damage it is amazing with ele proliferation
5. other good supports for this spell are melee physical damage, weapon elemental damage... the list goes on.
6. you can still use flasks while spinning (Granite anyone?)
7. it is fun as hell to play typewriter with cyclone and whirling blades
8. crit builds also make amazing use of this skill.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/234920/page/1 is the build i am currently using on it and I am damn near un-killable. (even with the low amount of life i have roughly 1300 currently in merciless act 1).

EDIT: I can't put up a video as my hardware does not like to run the game and fraps or xsplit at the same time I apologize.

Edit 2: I aim to run this in a 5l or 6l when i get it, like this
Cyclone > faster attacks > elemental proliferation > melee physical > added fire damage > LGoH or life leech depending on how much physical damage i can pump out and which works better.

^ I am already running wrath and hatred the added fire is simply to get the 3rd elemental debuff and more damage.

Edit 3: If they buff it man... icing on the cake. Oh and with mind drinker and 2% mana leech from gear I can run this skill non stop as long as I have something to hit.

Rhoas, assault banners, elite blackguards you know those pesky charge mobs that used to chain stun lock certain builds, granite flask and cyclone into them. They aren't an issue anymore.

My only complaint is the LGoH and damage effectiveness nerf/balancing. It still fills my health bar but no where near as fast as my whirling blades position reset to cyclone again.

Excellent points, I second this as well. I was discovering the benefits against charging in my ship graveyard run I just described. The skill is fine, for some builds at the VERY least. As with just about every skill in this game.

-Aaron

After further testing with the skill, I decided its not as bad as I had initially thought. My suggestions is to increase the aoe alittle to help alleviate some targeting issues with the skill, and perhaps bump up the dmg effectiveness to 40-60%.

"

evilcloud5 wrote:

After further testing with the skill, I decided its not as bad as I had initially thought. My suggestions is to increase the aoe alittle to help alleviate some targeting issues with the skill, and perhaps bump up the dmg effectiveness to 40-60%.

This mirrors my experience with it as well. Even with Master of the Arena, it feels like the AoE is smaller than what the visuals indicate. Master of the Arena definitely seems mandatory for the skill as it is though, as it definitely helps significantly. After getting it, I no longer have to literally pass through the enemies to deal damage :p

Level 60 cyclone duelist i made on the day of the patch:

spec thus far:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgQAAecFLQ6tEdUUIBR1GNsaVSFgJ9UotSmlMgk26DiWOuE67UCgQ5xHfkp9TeNQR1PfWK9Y21uvYEtgiGEhYVJjcGSjZU1noGz2bml07XTxeA1674TZhO-HdojxmSubLZuDnrmfy6ZXpzCpbqvFrFmuk7Xytxe9gb6nwA_B2MRYxLjKkNJN1fjdDe9O7-P3vvzF_o8=

A couple of changes i think that would help this build are speccing OUT of leather and steel, and removing the 8% run speed node.

i have mostly end-game gear save for a couple items, and my resists are still pitiful. 2300 life so far.

I think the damage effectiveness should be upped a bit, perhaps to at LEAST 45% if not 50%+. I find myself using leap slam more often than cyclone which is messed up because it only uses your main hand to calculate damage, and i do more DPS with it than with Cyclone, not to mention leap slam is a much more versatile skill and can be used for other purposes than dealing damage. A balance for this could be to retain the 'life gain on hit' support effectiveness at 35%?

The other issue i have is the loss of control one has when using the skill. To me this is a big one. When i think "to a target destination", to me that translates to "to where i right click". But it's not. I understand and agree with the implementation of making a maximum distance for it (and then re-cast if you're spamming it), but the minimum distance is a real let down. It gives you total loss of control of your character, even when you click RIGHT next to yourself -- you'll still whirlwind a minimum distance, when one doesn't necessarily want to. (I've lost a regal orb and 3 fusings in pub parties so far because of Cyclone and the loss of control.) I also think one should be able to use the skill again while you're in a current path with it, to change its path, and also just be able to left-click on the ground and get out of it.

Other than the first issue and the second extremely annoying issue, i really like the skill and its concept, and am very pleased to have it in my arsenal, as I've played whirlwind barbs since Diablo 2 came out and highly enjoy the playstyle.

Overall, I think if my suggested changes were implemented, the skill would be vastly polished while still retaining balance and significantly less people would be this displeased about it.

-NT

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aaronsan wrote:

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Killurself wrote:

"

aaronsan wrote:

^This.

You guys just keep on not using cyclone, that's fine by us. We'll look cool and mop up mobs for you while you ooh and aah. No one I've played with yet has had anything but good things to say about my support of the party with cyclone.

;D

-Aaron

If you could be so kind would you mind posting a video of you "mopping up everything" with Cyclone in some endgame maps? Maybe it would help school all of us "bads" on what exactly it is we are doing wrong. If not could you please start posting constructively and try to keep the insults to a minimum? It would be wonderful if it didn't sound like an argument between high school children in here.

LOL so are we saying it doesn't LEVEL well enough, or it's just never good enough, sucks, boo-hoo? I'm not ON end-game maps, I clearly state where I'm at right now. But I'll do it again.

I'm now a level 40 duelist (duelist!!!!) dual-wielding swords ATM.

And I hate to say it but at least mid-level this conversation is over. I just played in a team of 6 in an area at my level, ship graveyard, with no one from the team in there with me.

I had no trouble at all, never got below half health, often just used cyclone back and forth across the enemies even (gasp) with life on hit which others said is "useless" with cyclone.

It was ******not****** useless. As I said, the game was set (and the area was set by the team) for 6 players and yet I had no trouble cleaning it up.

As for maps some others on here have posted about their maps experience. Don't make this a "be quiet, noob" argument or you're being childish yourself. I'm not at maps yet. Nor is my cyclone level 15 yet ;P

It works, it's a powerful skill, and for now it makes a lot of sense for my build, any amping up would make it OP. Tested and proven in my game at least.

Now stop making us defend it so hard or they just might NERF it! Geez! Try it with a different build, try it with some strategy. Maybe it's not a mindless skill, and maybe like many on here that's what you like. So be it. It WORKS.

-Aaron

I'm sorry, but you are saying that something works amazing based solely off of your experience with it mid-level??? the part of the game that is easy no matter what build, gear, or skills you are using, as long as you know how to play the game? The real test is actually testing it at end-game, where it counts. Can you really say that this skill would not be improved by shortening the distance/duration of it and reducing the mana cost slightly, so that it is a more maneuverable skill? That does not make the skill mindless, and I am not even saying that straight damage should be buffed, because making the changes I am talking about would eliminate the need for that, as we would be able to hit the targets more than once or twice before passing it by, and would be able to circle a mob until it is demolished. Test the skill out at level 70, then tell me how well it works. This is not about anyone being called out on being a "noob" or not, it is about the overall quality of a skill, and feedback on what is good about it, and what could use improvement. Thanks.

I stopped reading when I saw level 40 duelist lol

What's wrong with Cyclone is that it's another elemental skill

Some of you guys act like every skill should do everything... It's quite entertaining to read but it has to suck for the devs... petulant whining more often than "hey thanks GGG this skill is one of many awesome ideas" it's ridiculous.

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Altnaharra wrote:

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snowplow wrote:

Maybe you are the one who needs to use you're head.

heh..

I try, German is my first language.