major end game design flaw (map drop rates / currency dump)

if you are losing currency playing by alc'ing and chaos'ing your maps until you get the exact map you want. Uh, ya you are losing money. lol, chaos's don't drop constantly to replace your money. If you are losing money, transmute them and alt them. And there ya go, you can't lose money.

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Pinchyskree wrote:

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Ithinkthisisnice wrote:

Rng is rng

Which it shouldn't be.

End game SHOULDNT' be based on RNG....end of story

end game bound to RNG = GRINDFEST

I also will put my 2cents.

I've been mapping quite a lot until last weekend, when I ran from 20+ maps to 2x66lvl maps which is absolutely pointless to run with my 81lvl character. So dropped the map thing and went for rolling a new char (it seemed more interesting then having no luck in maps.)

What is bad with end-game maps:
- Map quantity has too low effect on map drops. I was running rare maps with 80%+ quantity, but maps didn't drop or dropped only 1. I was having the same effect on maps with quantity up to 10%. Mostly there was like 5empty streaks, 1map, 5 empty, 1map. BTW, I try to run potentially good maps for map drop chance.
- You shouldn't be able to ran out of maps, but a lot of people do. End-game should be available at any time without taking insane luck into the calculation.

Ideas how to fix this:
- Map boss has a guarantee 1x66lvl map drop in blue maps, and 1x67lvl map in rare maps. In this case you will never run out of maps, and if you have bad luck i higher level maps, you can exchange your low lvl maps at vendor to get higher lvl maps. How ever it won't make too easy to go to highest lvl maps, because to exchange lvl maps (which are pointless to 85lvl+ characters) for 70+lvl maps you would need insane amount of them of identical ones.

- Second idea is increase CC drop in maps, so that you can pretty easily increase map quality a bit, since it's doesn't have a tremendous effect on maps drop. It would probably devalue CC's, but logically, it should drop in the same rates as Blacksmith's Whetstones and Armourer's Scraps.

- Third idea - make some adjustments on how map quantity affects map drop rare. Running like a streak of 3x70+quantity maps without getting a single map is just sick. Essentially crafting rare maps is a waste of currency, because you get no reward for sometimes insane difficulty of the rare map!.

Final notes
I don't mind of currency and item drops rates being the same in all game, but seriously, maps drop HAS TO BE FIXED! For now, I'm more frustrated than exited about end-game maps.

I have 3 chars at 70+, and grinding docks once the RNG map gods forsake them is so painfully stupid that i just keep rolling alts. There is no appeal to a frustrating rng endgame.

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Laellu wrote:

I really think the major end-game design flaw is in your heads. A game such as this doesn't have the end-game of an MMORPG, which I think is what you are asking for. They are not looking to trivialize your gear with every expansion. As a matter of fact, they state why they want to make concurrent content instead. What all of that means is that you are complaining to have end-game gear faster. That is what all this complaining boils down to.

It isn't arguable that the power of a level 95 character is significantly higher than the power of a level 90 character. Passive skill points don't suddenly become better when you are higher level. If it takes you 95 levels worth of skill points to make your build work, then you have a really lame build.

So, why do you want higher level maps right now?

You say you want to be rewarded for your time invested? You may be playing the wrong sort of game. This game above all other argp's that I know of, reward you for time served. If you build a character with high magic find you will find the best shinies. If you use a proper strategy on your maps, you will find higher level maps. If you want end-game options, check out races and practice for them. Roll up alts and gear them. Collect enough maps and currency to attain end-game maps.

For a bit of perspective, consider that these complaints seem to be that after 1.5 months you do not have everything. Maybe.........they want the game to last for more than a month or two?

You are one of those "well, it's your fault you rushed to the end game!" -people aren't you? I want higher level maps right now so I can progress my character right now, not in 1 year, be it in levels or gear. It's none of your fucking business to dictate how I play my game but excuse me if I want to actually be able to progress. Being constantly dropped to 66 maps because I have bad luck is extremely frustrating, especially if you run 50% quantity maps with mazes and whatnot, losing huge amount of currency in the process as well for no fucking pay off.

If you want an analogy for the simpleminded imagine if every time you wanted to run Mephisto in D2 you'd have to run through the whole act but while doing this sometimes the exit to the next area wouldn't spawn and you'd have to randomly start at an earlier waypoint, usually just from the very beginning because hey, why not run fucking spider forest to infinity and hope for the exit to spawn.

Currently the system is hilariously bad, to even get started with maps you need some luck or just trade them. After that you're stuck farming the shitty maps hoping for a better drop each time you run, and when you finally get those 70 maps and alch them with proper mods, chisel them, what do you get? A 66 map. Great logic.

You shouldn't be able to fall 4 levels in maps, 2 would be something I'd consider barely acceptable. What's even more hilarious you can actually fall 10 levels, I haven't done 75 maps yet since every time I get to early 70s I either get 0 drops or just 66s and 67s but apparently it's possible even in those levels.

I still do not understand what was so bad in Maelstrom. It just needed some tweaking and maybe a feature that you wouldn't need to start from 0 every time you start up the game. I understand why the current system is in place. It's a good way to keep the economy in a good place longer, especially on hardcore but in my opinion when gameplay suffers because of in game economy something is wrong.

Map drop rate should work like evasion to prevent empty streaks.

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walentaz wrote:

Ideas how to fix this:
- Map boss has a guarantee 1x66lvl map drop in blue maps, and 1x67lvl map in rare maps. In this case you will never run out of maps, and if you have bad luck i higher level maps, you can exchange your low lvl maps at vendor to get higher lvl maps. How ever it won't make too easy to go to highest lvl maps, because to exchange lvl maps (which are pointless to 85lvl+ characters) for 70+lvl maps you would need insane amount of them of identical ones.

And this

What it boils down to is people want to farm higher ilevel items and would be glad to do so over and over and over - that's what ARPG's are.

What we're forced to do is farm stuff 10-15 levels lower for hours/days/weeks on end in hopes we get ONE CHANCE to farm a higher level that lasts 10 minutes, then back to crappy maps over and over and over.

As a long term player who loves POE and admires GGG (most of the time), I don't see this model sustaining GGG's playerbase. Only the streamers making money off the streams (and have a billion friends to supply and run higher level maps) will keep this insanity up, us normal 'hardcore' players have no reason to keep it up.

I suppose they think the leagues will keep people going. Maybe some, but certainly not the majority.

I'll add my 2 cent

I'm a casual player and started on the map rng game and its broken, end game should not be based on luck I don't care what any one says, sure if you can play 10 hours a day with a couple of people then the system works in some respects but not everyone can. I just had a few days off work so I put some time into grinding and I went 2 days without seeing one map drop....... The idea about the boss of a rare map dropping a white map of the same level is what should happen, because then you get at 100% chance to carry on maps if you can tackle the map and boss but it doesn't upset the balance because the map is of the same level.

I also agree end game shouldnt be about RNG, its just dumb, come up with another currency sink, but it shouldnt be maps

For me personaly Map system is good its like other said you can stack up currency to (idunno what to do with only rolling on maps) crafting with the new prefixes and suffixes is only wasted currency buying items ...hmm for what...i get what i need and map and enjoy the only - is im playing solo cause lootsystem sucks and this system prevents ppl better to sell stuff for money...

if they wanna play progress for rank 1 or something else they have to decide money or progress