Wait..WHAT? I need HP in a CI build?

CI is still very powerful at end game.

Am I reading that players want CI to have immunity to Chaos AND all other elemental ailments as well?

People complained that ES was too powerful, it got nerfed. The Witch part of the tree had no alternative to CI and the devs wondered why everyone chose it as defense. Even with 10k+ ES, it wasn't tremendous as a defense, its weakness to stuns and status ailments more than made up for the large numbers you could reach.

I'll gladly admit that it was too strong with the miniscule amount of investment it took. For reference, I was more heavily invested than most and I had just 4 clusters from templar to witch to shadow. If it would have just taken a few more nodes at each cluster to attain the amount of ES%+ you could get from them, it probably would have been fairly well balanced.

I still think Ghost Reaver was a terrible node decision. If you want to leech, choose life. Instead they're forced to make the two very similar, and now chaos damage looks like other elements, as well.

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BazzV5 wrote:

CI is still very powerful at end game.

Am I reading that players want CI to have immunity to Chaos AND all other elemental ailments as well?

Umm, no, how you came to that conclusion baffles me...

We want the ES pool to be used to calculate Freeze/Stun chances, not the HP Pool of which only 1 health is able to be sued by the player.

I cannot for the life of me figure out a single reason to even consider taking CI. It's like a gun on a table, and clicking it is like picking it up and shooting yourself in the foot.

Chaos resistance is a joke compared to the down side. It is AT ABSOLUTE MOST 60% increase to your teeny tiny eHP from ES. Now take into account the fact that not many enemies actually deal chaos damage, and that half the one that do don't even deal full chaos damage. Add in the loss of all Life, constant stun/freeze/shock/burn and you have a recipe for disaster.

Uniques? Sure. I'll just go pick up a chayula, a dream fragment, and fairgraves at the corner deli. No biggie. Not to mention they suck at everything else other than their main advantage. Now I'll just die from the lack of ES rather than status effects. Brilliant.

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Josephoenix wrote:

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Rhys wrote:

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Yxalitis wrote:

Pedantics, the fact is having the HP pool, that is not available to the player, being used to calculate stun/freeze is dumb.

I'm just saying, please don't quote devs out of context as evidence for some unrelated argument.

And I don't know how/why CI combat mechanics work the way they do. Sorry.

could we possibly get someone from GGG to explain to us "how/why CI combat mechanics" works?

Would be very helpful, thx

You're looking for Qarl.

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tinghshi wrote:

I cannot for the life of me figure out a single reason to even consider taking CI. It's like a gun on a table, and clicking it is like picking it up and shooting yourself in the foot.

Chaos resistance is a joke compared to the down side. It is AT ABSOLUTE MOST 60% increase to your teeny tiny eHP from ES. Now take into account the fact that not many enemies actually deal chaos damage, and that half the one that do don't even deal full chaos damage. Add in the loss of all Life, constant stun/freeze/shock/burn and you have a recipe for disaster.

Uniques? Sure. I'll just go pick up a chayula, a dream fragment, and fairgraves at the corner deli. No biggie. Not to mention they suck at everything else other than their main advantage. Now I'll just die from the lack of ES rather than status effects. Brilliant.

Sometimes it's not about picking the most OP build possible, but playing a certain style that appeals to you.
I hated Chaos, the way it sucked your life from behind ES seemed...evil.
I hated the Chaos clouds in he sewers, died a few times before I recognised the graphic effect associated with it.
At level 55, I had -54% chaos res.
In one click, I had +100,a and can laugh at chaos dealers.

As beta players it's up to us to pick builds that appeal to us as individuals, and see how they pan out, NOT to just use this month's WTFBBBQ build and faceroll the game.

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Yxalitis wrote:

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Rhys wrote:

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Yxalitis wrote:

But then I read a dev comment that the chance to be frozen/stunned is based on your HP pool, and ideally a CI player should stack HP as well.

He didn't say that. He just said that if you have both CI and +life, the +life doesn't do nothing, it affects your HP for the purposes of calculating stun. That's all.

Pedantics, the fact is having the HP pool, that is not available to the player, being used to calculate stun/freeze is dumb.

I agree, mostly because having something hidden from you affect your survivability is pretty bad. There needs to be a level of transparency with things this important. I'm sure they want to work on giving this information to the player better.

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shadowbane wrote:

1 redeeming quality of stacking ES is that having any amount of ES up will confer a 50% chance of getting stunned.

This definitely helps, but juts how much life does your average CI character have at later levels? I know a nice goal for an HP character is 5-6k. Is 1k normal for someone not actively seeking health?

The stun reduction of ES essentially makes it so CI characters have to take more than 25% of their max health in a hit compared to HP characters having to take more than 12.5% of their health.

It doesn't make CI as good as HP when it comes to stuns but it does close the gap by a decent amount, assuming CI users don't have an HP pool of 500, because then no matter what you're getting stunned pretty often.

I think CI needs some sort of tweak to make it a little more appealing, although it is NOT as weak as most people think, it's just very gear dependent. Most life builds put a significant amount of points into life while you can get 7-10k ES without the greatest gear and with much less nodes spent in ES.

So it's really the status ailments stun then I guess.

If it hasn't been mentioned, use Dream Fragments.

I'm doing fine as CI Ice Witch with very high end gear, but honestly it feels like it would have been so much easier going marauder or templar and stacking HP.

It's passable but not optimal

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Mark_GGG wrote:

It's intended that life bonuses don't increase survivability* for CI characters and thus are not particularly comparable.

(..snip..)

*yes they still count for stun, that's not what I'm talking about here

A little hp might help a little.. but not really. So adding HP to a CI build probably wouldn't help much at all really. Weaknees to stun and elemental ailments are a design decision you make when you decide on CI.

Whether that weakness is too much or too little is an entirely different conversation but yea (never played CI afterall =/ )

Hopefully GGG's statements aren't taken out of context again.. seeing as I filched that from a topic where that exact statement was taken out of context ~_~"