For the love of god, please, rework DEXTERITY. (Updated)

Adding too many accessible hp nodes to evasion would actually potentially make it too good.

It's possible that messing with the RNG distribution that evasion can be made to compete with armor. I also agree with Charan that Iron Reflexes should be removed from the game.

It's also possible that even with evasion tweaks improving its mechanics by reducing streaks, that other forms of defense are actually too good, and compared to a balanced evasion without streaks, armor and ES builds (combined with combat skills that are more effective at killing and avoiding damage potentially) are just more powerful and need to be brought down.

That said, there are a lot of complaints about melee overall... so it's difficult to dissect which factors are from evasion specifically and which are from melee synergies bringing it down.

There's no getting around the point about the stats balance being skewed towards str though.

Necrobump.

The lack of damage scaling for dexterity is really off-putting. Critical chance or a bonus to ranged damage would solve this- there's somewhat of a disconnect due to the fact that dexterity is required to use bows, which would indicate that your proficiency (and as such, potential damage output) depends on dexterity.

However, the only way to increase your physical damage for a bow using primary attributes is to grab (no pun intended) the 'Iron Grip' keystone and pump points into strength. Weapon damage should really, really scale according to its primary attribute (and slightly less for a secondary, if any, attribute).

This is a very "Dark Souls" concept (if anyone here is familiar with that game)- where all weapons have "ratings" on them which indicate how well (if at all) they scale to a corresponding attribute.

It makes a lot more sense- and would mean that wand damage scale with intelligence- claws could have a dexterity primary and strength secondary. Some unique weapons could have different scaling stats (dex/int claws?).

I realize this requires a reasonable amount of work to implement, but seriously, bow damage that scales solely with strength is surpassed in silliness only by wand damage that scales with strength.

---edit---

...then I realized that 'Iron Grip' is surpassed only in silliness by 'Iron Will'.

Seriously guys, intelligence never fucking increases the damage of spells, but only strength can?

I can understand the push to be unique- but that's just pretty god damn stupid.

Brb going to lift to improve my coding skills.

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johnmaikeru wrote:

Necrobump.

The lack of damage scaling for dexterity is really off-putting. Critical chance or a bonus to ranged damage would solve this- there's somewhat of a disconnect due to the fact that dexterity is required to use bows, which would indicate that your proficiency (and as such, potential damage output) depends on dexterity.

However, the only way to increase your physical damage for a bow using primary attributes is to grab (no pun intended) the 'Iron Grip' keystone and pump points into strength. Weapon damage should really, really scale according to its primary attribute (and slightly less for a secondary, if any, attribute).

This is a very "Dark Souls" concept (if anyone here is familiar with that game)- where all weapons have "ratings" on them which indicate how well (if at all) they scale to a corresponding attribute.

It makes a lot more sense- and would mean that wand damage scale with intelligence- claws could have a dexterity primary and strength secondary. Some unique weapons could have different scaling stats (dex/int claws?).

I realize this requires a reasonable amount of work to implement, but seriously, bow damage that scales solely with strength is surpassed in silliness only by wand damage that scales with strength.

---edit---

...then I realized that 'Iron Grip' is surpassed only in silliness by 'Iron Will'.

Seriously guys, intelligence never fucking increases the damage of spells, but only strength can?

I can understand the push to be unique- but that's just pretty god damn stupid.

Brb going to lift to improve my coding skills.

Just gonna say that dex does increase dps, it incerases it due to accuracy, as most dex builds are focused on the opposite side of the tree to the RT keystone. Sadly accuracy is badly setup at the moment and crit is too dangerous so most attacking classes use RT instead to stay safe

Accuracy isnt very good and evasion has an inherent design flaw which GGG chooses not to address or acknowledge.

"

Real_Wolf wrote:

Just gonna say that dex does increase dps, it incerases it due to accuracy, as most dex builds are focused on the opposite side of the tree to the RT keystone. Sadly accuracy is badly setup at the moment and crit is too dangerous so most attacking classes use RT instead to stay safe

It should be this, but RT and other methods of avoiding needing to check to hit simply dominate it. (eg, Lion bow).

Read the OP too after the necro. I think the acc isn't that spectacular. I think you can go pure dex grab all the dex notes and still drop in acc, just not as hard, without. Acc has always been off, but I often think this has more to do vs the always hit mechanic from RT, Lions and spells. The accuracy system doesn't seem to work well when simply turned on. I suspect this might have to do with latency/ spikes/ packet loss/ desync. You simple hit far less than the % hit chance when you use this system.

If you look at the numbers they seem right and not off. Often with my acc. based classes (not spells or RT) I will be around 85 to 90% accuracy. In fights however, even with /oos use I seem to hit between 65 to 80%.

Anyways the mana bonus from int is also lackluster, only strength feels in place, until you find out how many supports and skills work with strength.

"

Ozgwald wrote:

Read the OP too after the necro. I think the acc isn't that spectacular. I think you can go pure dex grab all the dex notes and still drop in acc, just not as hard, without. Acc has always been off, but I often think this has more to do vs the always hit mechanic from RT, Lions and spells. The accuracy system doesn't seem to work well when simply turned on. I suspect this might have to do with latency/ spikes/ packet loss/ desync. You simple hit far less than the % hit chance when you use this system.

If you look at the numbers they seem right and not off. Often with my acc. based classes (not spells or RT) I will be around 85 to 90% accuracy. In fights however, even with /oos use I seem to hit between 65 to 80%.

Anyways the mana bonus from int is also lackluster, only strength feels in place, until you find out how many supports and skills work with strength.

85-90 is not acceptable with an acc focus. That's missing every 6-10 attacks. An Acc focused character should be able to hit 95-100 hit chance with reasonable effort.

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Squirrelloid wrote:

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Ozgwald wrote:

Read the OP too after the necro. I think the acc isn't that spectacular. I think you can go pure dex grab all the dex notes and still drop in acc, just not as hard, without. Acc has always been off, but I often think this has more to do vs the always hit mechanic from RT, Lions and spells. The accuracy system doesn't seem to work well when simply turned on. I suspect this might have to do with latency/ spikes/ packet loss/ desync. You simple hit far less than the % hit chance when you use this system.

If you look at the numbers they seem right and not off. Often with my acc. based classes (not spells or RT) I will be around 85 to 90% accuracy. In fights however, even with /oos use I seem to hit between 65 to 80%.

Anyways the mana bonus from int is also lackluster, only strength feels in place, until you find out how many supports and skills work with strength.

85-90 is not acceptable with an acc focus. That's missing every 6-10 attacks. An Acc focused character should be able to hit 95-100 hit chance with reasonable effort.

I believe it is maxed out at 95. The balance is in the fact you can still crit, someone did the numbers on that and it showed that accuracy is not as bad, especially if you invest some nodes/ gear towards crit (you don't need both insane crit and insane accuracy, just a bit acc and good crit). The issue with spreadsheet numbers is that they don't take into account desync or whatever it is that clearly makes acc based builds miss more than they should.

I might be wrong with this one, but I think that I also noticed (vaguely) that once when I added 100 acc I would go up a full 1%, while later when I got 150 acc on top of that the % did not drop this was around 92%, so it might not even be a linear increase. <- This is pure speculation, I haven't verified or checked it, might as well be BS so don't take it to heart, but feel free to look or inform me if you do know how it exactly is.

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Ozgwald wrote:

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Squirrelloid wrote:

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Ozgwald wrote:

Read the OP too after the necro. I think the acc isn't that spectacular. I think you can go pure dex grab all the dex notes and still drop in acc, just not as hard, without. Acc has always been off, but I often think this has more to do vs the always hit mechanic from RT, Lions and spells. The accuracy system doesn't seem to work well when simply turned on. I suspect this might have to do with latency/ spikes/ packet loss/ desync. You simple hit far less than the % hit chance when you use this system.

If you look at the numbers they seem right and not off. Often with my acc. based classes (not spells or RT) I will be around 85 to 90% accuracy. In fights however, even with /oos use I seem to hit between 65 to 80%.

Anyways the mana bonus from int is also lackluster, only strength feels in place, until you find out how many supports and skills work with strength.

85-90 is not acceptable with an acc focus. That's missing every 6-10 attacks. An Acc focused character should be able to hit 95-100 hit chance with reasonable effort.

I believe it is maxed out at 95. The balance is in the fact you can still crit, someone did the numbers on that and it showed that accuracy is not as bad, especially if you invest some nodes/ gear towards crit (you don't need both insane crit and insane accuracy, just a bit acc and good crit). The issue with spreadsheet numbers is that they don't take into account desync or whatever it is that clearly makes acc based builds miss more than they should.

I might be wrong with this one, but I think that I also noticed (vaguely) that once when I added 100 acc I would go up a full 1%, while later when I got 150 acc on top of that the % did not drop this was around 92%, so it might not even be a linear increase. <- This is pure speculation, I haven't verified or checked it, might as well be BS so don't take it to heart, but feel free to look or inform me if you do know how it exactly is.

Criticals are not an acceptable 'bonus' when RT spends one passive skill point and they're done. We're investing a lot more to get decent accuracy, we should be able to perform equal to RT *and* have criticals for all that extra investment. Oh yeah, and Lionseye? Doesn't care about accuracy and still gets crits.

And seriously, 95% is 1 miss in 20 attacks. That's really common. And you can only reach 95% with an *obscene* investment into attack rating, which means you don't have the passives to pick up crit chance anyway. (Seriously, look at who actually invests in crit chance: spellcasters and people using attacks or weapons which don't depend on accuracy at all). Bottomline: there's basically no reward for investing in attack rating.

That it maxes out at 95% is a flaw in the system, and should be fixed.

Should find the spreadsheet numbers, can't find them myself atm, but you don't need a lot to get a point where you get more damage than RT, with crit nodes, good dex and some acc. RT only has 1 system to boost damage, which is increased physical (or increase elemental). Both system that increase the same base. One other option would be combining it with lightning stacks, but basically that is it (considering same skill and gem use between the two).

The acc based build will have both crit and crit multiplier as multipliers to the damage.

Imagine some break even point where we can get some arbitrary 10% increase.

With RT is goes like this:
Old: 50dmg.
New: 50 (base dmg) * 1.1 (increased) = 55 dmg so +5
New 2: 50 * 1.2 = 60 +5

With acc it is as follow;
Old: 50dmg * 0.5 (50% accuracy) * 1 (crit chance) * 2 (100% bonus crit mult) = 50 dmg
New: 50dmg * 0.5 (50% accuracy) * 1.1 * 1 * 2 = 55 dmg +5
New 2: 50 * 0.5 * 1.1 * (1*1.1) * 2 = 60.5 +5.5

So in the last case instead of getting 10% increased damage which would just add with the previous increased damage I got 10% increased crit chance. This yielded me +0.5 more. This is just to show how one system catches up with the other. If you would draw it on my example (which only portrays the PoE is essence, not accurately!) 50% accuracy would be experienced in 40% and this is something not taken into the balancing of the numbers.

Also don't forget that crits also come with status ailments, which also should not be underestimated.

I do agree that there might be too many points involved with the break even point between both systems. Points not easily gotten, because we are forced to follow the path of life nodes. It is definitely not easily balanced especially due to the game experience of farm more misses.

I know that one of the first rolls made is whether you hit, than a 2nd roll looks if you also crit (that is for the player entropy system, I assume monsters get the same system?). Perhaps it is better to first registers a hit and after that it is decided whether it does damage and applies a status ailments, both factors than would be multiplied by 0. So instead of missing, you are hitting, but after that for 0 damage. Might be a workaround on the whole desync debacle?

Edit: On hindsight the last thing wouldn't really work, because it is more an issue of monsters/ character not being in the same place clientside and serverside. The hit issue has to be that you are attacking something serverside that is not there, though it is on your screen. Vice versa the server tells you are getting hit at times, while nothing is on your screen, but server side a monster is on screen hitting you.

Putting it client side would probably be to open to cheating (hacks) (let client correct server). Enfin I can see a lot of benefit in the always hit solution and doing 0 dmg hits and dump what we got now.