Dual Strike

I'm eating my words (compared to an earlier post made by me in this thread), but hear me out.

Dual Strike is one of the few single-target melee skills that doesn't have a damage effectiveness%. None meaning it does 100% of your damage, so no gain or reduction.

Compare that to Lightning Strike, Heavy Strike, Infernal Blow, Glacial Hammer - skills that are meant for DPH that all have 120%+ DE. Other single target skills like Dominating Blow, Shield Charge, and Double Strike have a more unique role and as such I don't think the DE argument applies to these skills. (Double Strike is arguable, but you get 2 attacks in and the 70% DE makes it more suitable for ele/crit builds.)

Dual Strike is the odd one out in the single-target melee family. While I don't think Dual Strike is underpowered by any stretch of the imagination, a 100% DE is a bit boring. Bumping its DE to 120% (or a range between 110-120%) would at least bring it on par with some of the other single-target skills.

I don't agree that a 100% DE is "boring", it's just a number, who cares. But bumping it slightly would be a good move IMO, it would compensate for the fact, that dual strike has to go through armor twice. This and fixing stun, like I said on the previous page, would give melee the much needed help.

with dual strike, you are using both weapons at same time with, that is more effectively a 200% if you want to oversimplify. it isn't actually "200%" DE because we already know the actual is 100%, its just two weapons at once.

anyways, did anyone find answer to my last question? how does the passive adder's touch interact with a mixed weapon dual strike?

Well, the best comparison to Dual Strike would be using a 2handed weapon with Heavy Strike. While DS has a 1.1x speed boost, a 2handed weapon is equal or near equal to 2 single-hand weapons DPH-wise, not to mention that Heavy Strike has a 150% DE whereas DS has none. The skills have a gap, and which is why I feel DS could use a buff.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

Heavy Strike's DPS is reduced by the Knockback though.
(I still firmly believe the Knockback is a balancing measure, and that Heavy Strike is still ridiculously good despite it)

150% is sick no matter how you slice it. I think it makes sense to buff Dual Strike to 110% DE and call it day.

I don't think knockback is an issue as long as you have high movement speed, which lets you catch up to the target in little to no time. (In theory that is. I never had an issue with HS's knockback mechanic.)

"

Islidox wrote:

Well, the best comparison to Dual Strike would be using a 2handed weapon with Heavy Strike. While DS has a 1.1x speed boost, a 2handed weapon is equal or near equal to 2 single-hand weapons DPH-wise, not to mention that Heavy Strike has a 150% DE whereas DS has none. The skills have a gap, and which is why I feel DS could use a buff.

DPS wise 2-handed weapons are about 50% more effective, and that's before external damage sources are added in (items,auras) which work significantly better with high attack speed.

DPH alone is not even close to a fair comparison.

"

Novalisk wrote:

"

Islidox wrote:

Well, the best comparison to Dual Strike would be using a 2handed weapon with Heavy Strike. While DS has a 1.1x speed boost, a 2handed weapon is equal or near equal to 2 single-hand weapons DPH-wise, not to mention that Heavy Strike has a 150% DE whereas DS has none. The skills have a gap, and which is why I feel DS could use a buff.

DPS wise 2-handed weapons are about 50% more effective, and that's before external damage sources are added in (items,auras) which work significantly better with high attack speed.

DPH alone is not even close to a fair comparison.

Where in the world are you getting this "50% more effective" figure?

Dual wielding has 2 advantages, namely a 1.1x increase in AS and an innate 15% block chance. 1.1x AS does not equate to 50% more DPS. True, godly 2handers can reach the 300 DPH range, and multiplying that by 2 gives you 600+ DPH, which is why I also mention that 2handers are equal or near equal as some godly 2handers can reach the 500+ DPH range. Taking account of the highest ranges of said weapons (500 vs 600*1.1), it's only a 1.32x more damage.

Then to compare:
- Take 660 (600*1.1) and multiply it by 1.1 damage effectiveness (for my proposed Dual Strike), you get 726 damage.
- Take 500 * 1.5 damage effectiveness for Heavy Strike, and you get 750 damage.

Damage figures are similar, but the advantage still tipping in Heavy Strike's favor. And of course, using the upper bounds of IPD that weapons can get.

Additional sources of damage have no relevance because that can equally apply to both weapon types. If you're thinking about ele-Cleave which bringings in high APS and high ele dmg, it has no relevance on this topic as I'm comparing single-target skills to single-target skills.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

"

Islidox wrote:

Additional sources of damage have no relevance because that can equally apply to both weapon types. If you're thinking about ele-Cleave which bringings in high APS and high ele dmg, it has no relevance on this topic as I'm comparing single-target skills to single-target skills.

It does matter, though. They apply the same to both weapon types, but not the same to both skills. Anger adds damage to every hit, dealing its damage twice with Dual Strike. A simple +10 damage modifier grants +20 damage to Dual Strike (two hits), +15 damage to Heavy (150% DE).

You're right, I forgot to consider that. If so, then's it's more than likely that DS can surpass Heavy Strike without an increase in Damage Effectiveness. And nobody uses Infernal/Glacial/Dominating/LightningStrike/HeavyStrike while dual-wielding. Still, I'd love to see an increase in DE to make it on par with its sibling skills.

If anything, Double Strike could use a buff, from 70% to 80%, but I haven't used Double Strike since Closed Beta since for single-target damage (single-1hand or 2handed), Heavy Strike is still blows Double Strike out of the water.