Detonate Dead

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Vipermagi wrote:

The tags have no actual effect on the functionality of the Skill. It's still technically classified as a Spell; it's only the Damage type that is not Spell.

So I guess the MORE Spell dmg mod from Righteous fire, the low life bonus and iron will doesnt work with DD too?

why use DD when you can use Flameblast now? =z

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fsk1989 wrote:

why use DD when you can use Flameblast now? =z

i'm confused, explain.
flameblast requires roughly 3 seconds to reach max damage of 990% more damage and its quality is chance to ignite. requires fair amount of mana regen for each "round". the easily visible numbers let you know how much you're doing, but not if it is enough to kill monsters. yes it has very high damage.
detonate dead requires a foe to already be dead, and does nearly (because mobs have slight variance to thier hp) exact amount of damage. it is harder to use and boost and has good results due to math.

unless you're trying to overkill, flameblast isn't worth investing too much into. it can be fine by itself unless going against resistant map mobs.

to me DD is outclassed in every way by flameblast. Both deal fire AoE fire damage and both require some preparation time, either by corpse generation or channeled casting.

and then flameblast adds a controlable aoe size/damage scaling, has the chance to ignite you mentioned, and because you can predict its damage reflect is that easier to manage.

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fsk1989 wrote:

to me DD is outclassed in every way by flameblast. Both deal fire AoE fire damage and both require some preparation time, either by corpse generation or channeled casting.

Well currently I try to do a detonate dead build where I can one-shot every monster with the same life than the used corpse (as long as their fire res is zero -> double curse).
Since monsters usually come in packs of the same monster type it should have a really good clearing speed.

According to my calculations this should work, but I am a bit sceptical because of the tiny AoE radius of DD... I already have all AoE nodes from templar and most of the witch tree and DD radius is soo bad. Well I have planned my build with a carcass jack (wich I dont have atm) and a qual AoE gem should give me some more range too but...


I dont think DD needs a huge dps boost but definately a lot more (base) AoE radius...
I think you should remove that useless phys dmg and give it an AoE increase with every gem lvl.
Atm nobody lvls DD gem since you'll do the same dmg with a lot less mana cost at lvl 1...


edit: oh and really remove (or at least make it a lot lower) that dps penalty in groups (base dmg is the monster life in singleplayer - even in groups)
Using this skill in bigger groups is just insanely bad...

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Vipermagi wrote:

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azraelb wrote:

edit: oh and really remove (or at least make it a lot lower) that dps penalty in groups (base dmg is the monster life in singleplayer - even in groups)
Using this skill in bigger groups is just insanely bad...

Every Skill deals less relative Damage when in a party (there is no "DPS penalty", that's horseshit). Why should DD be different? Why should it scale with party size and instakill everything even in a full party, whereas every other Skill needs to land more hits?

Yes there is - indirectly.
While you can use high base dmg weapons/spells and scale it with a lot of modifiers to do a lot of DPS (there are quite a lot of builds wich are able to solo a full party) the base dmg of DD is based on the monsters life.

You only can use very few modifiers to scale DD. This is not a huge problem while playing solo, because you dont need to scale your base dmg that high (you only need to scale the 18% near to 100%) but in partys your base dmg isnt 18% of monster life but much lower depending on how many players are in that party.

==> Compared to all those 30k - 100k DPS builds out there DD REALLY SUCKS in partys because of that mechanic!!!!

In addition to that you'll need a corpse first and then the other monsters have to be near the corpse to get hit and your singletarget DPS is pretty bad too when u concentrate on DD.



-> one example:
lets say I scaled my DD up to 100% (wich is really really difficult), so I have a nice killspeed in solo game.
My friend uses a ST build wich one-shots most of the monsters anyway even in a 3 man party.
When I play with him and another char e.g. a wander in a party they still can one-shot most monsters with much more AoE while I only can do max 50% of monster's life and thats even without any fire res.

=> Thats why DD really sucks in partys compared to other well equipped high tier builds... it simply does A LOT less DPS than high tier builds AND has a lot less AoE...
and thats why I agree with the statement that e.g. flamebalst is much better than DD...


In D2 corpse explosion doesnt had such weird mechanics and it worked really well - in groups and solo with so much more AoE and you were still able to have a lot of powerful minions and a nice powerful spell to create corpses.
In PoE you totally have to concentrate on DD and it still is only viable in singleplayer (and even there not really good compared to other builds...)
Not to mention the huge problem you will have in PoE with DD because of its stupid reflect mods...

my suggestion:

let detonate dead deal more damage by default and decrease the effect of multipliers on it.

the skill does enough damage in conjunction with multipliers but the skill feels weak when you first equip it.

That way most people forget that the gem even exists.

DD+Fire Pen+Remote Mine+Inc Aoe all the way!

As someone who uses detonate dead a lot i dont like the new summoner skills...
I already hate to see all those beautiful corpses being shattered by those freaking ice casters and now i also have to share them with those annoying necros :(