Remove xp penalty's from death

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goetzjam wrote:

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levy42088 wrote:

As a beloved Legacy Soul Taker user, I believe the reason behind the drop in soul taker pricing was because GGG kept releasing patches that reduced mana costs of every skill. So really, people aren't depending on a soul taker to attack with no mana, they simply use other weapons and figure out how to get the little bit of mana leech you do need

Yeah soul taker has WAY more to do with the unique property of it rather then the lack of crit\damage.

Idk if this was sarcasm, but its true. Plus, a Legacy Soul Taker 200/25 has 350+ PDPS. Thats pretty nice for a 1 Hand Axe, Especially if paired with an Aegis. I can put out 50k tooltip static strike dps, with 9.3 attacks per second.

But thats a different story, GGG already messed up the value of the soul taker. This thread is about how can GGG make mapping More Fun for those who are not level 100. No matter if you set a personal goal, saying "ok at level 85 im not going to level any more", your still going to die, and your going to lose 10% xp. If you keep playing at 85, and not dying, then soon enough you will be 65%, and forced to be careful until you level again.

As long as you have xp to lose, noone is going to want to lose it. Wether or not you "don't care about leveling anymore"

We need to rethink this mapping situation. How can more people enjoy the end game mapping system of path of exile.

The great thing about maps are no 2 are ever the same. Since all currency orbs are used to make maps, you can get some pretty crazy/fun/scary mods.

The scarier the mods, the more fun the map. The problem with the scary mods is that if you have any xp at all, your pretty much committing suicide. How can we prevent this? Right now, if your in a party of 6 people, and someone puts in a hard map, you can just follow everyone else, dont attack anything, and be bored for the whole map. OR lets make a way to get everyone included even in the hard maps.

If you die and lose xp, you get super pissed and rage quit, if you die and don't lose xp, you laugh and have MORE fun.

Maybe GGG can host a "No XP Pentalty Weekend" Or "No XP Penalty Night" To try some ideas and see how the community responds. I have a feeling it will be less about people "abusing the system" and more about "getting everyone involved"

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wftico wrote:

I'm just here to agree. The death penalty really has to go.

So, basically, there should be some sort of penalty, sure. But the exp penalty really is to harsh.
Dying in higher levels really means a timelost of hours if not even days of grinding.

There is not a single reason why the death penalty has to be so harsh.
If you want a real penalty, play hardcore leagues.
You can't even "exploit" the game, when the death penalty is gone. Since you've got
just a limited amount of portals on maps, you still can't play completely brainless.

The thing is... there are plenty of things that can kill you really really fast, without
making own mistakes. Desync is just one of them.

Yeah... I don't know... I think PoE would be way more fun if the frustrating death penalty
would be gone. Especially on Standart/Softcore leagues there shouldnt be such a penalty!

/Agreed. If you want a penalty upon death, play hard core. People don't like having that permanent of a punishment so they choose Standard. Not because they perfer the XP Loss Penalty, but because its the Better of the 2 Evils.

If you made a league with no death penalty, or a less harsh penalty, many players of standard will go there, because thats what they want, and they dont have to choose between perma death or hours of xp loss.

I just died again...

was doint a Haku Mission (those missions suck so hard anyway), but got a dc while
I was doing it. So... I logged back in, went into the map and just though I'll go
back into the instance of haku's mission. Well... I got in there and pretty much
instantly got hit of whatever which killed me instantly as well.

What I want to say: there are soooooooooo many silly reasons why you can die in this
game. A death penatly like that makes it super frustrating to play the game at times.

I'm 88 now but can't sustain real high lvl maps (75+) in solo play... which basically
means, one death ends in 5-6 hours of low level map grinding, just to get the lost exp back.

That's not the way how standart/softcore leagues should work!

(btw, the ONLY reason why I still can enjoy the game is, that I'm already 88 and my
build doesn't need to get any more points, though it would be great of course...
so I basically just accepted that I probably won't make any more levels...)

:( Thats a shame wiftico, Keep at it, dont do haku missions, or tell someone to go in first to tell u if its the easy ones u dont have to run through, and can stand by the door. But yea, thats another thing, dying in master missions shouldnt count towards the penalty. Just like if you die in zana's map, you start back in the map and dont lose a portal to the original.

try to get to 92. do public map rotations. so u pay your 78 map and get 6 maps worth of xp. with fun people, hopefully no noobs.

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wftico wrote:

I just died again...

was doint a Haku Mission (those missions suck so hard anyway), but got a dc while
I was doing it. So... I logged back in, went into the map and just though I'll go
back into the instance of haku's mission. Well... I got in there and pretty much
instantly got hit of whatever which killed me instantly as well.

What I want to say: there are soooooooooo many silly reasons why you can die in this
game. A death penatly like that makes it super frustrating to play the game at times.

I'm 88 now but can't sustain real high lvl maps (75+) in solo play... which basically
means, one death ends in 5-6 hours of low level map grinding, just to get the lost exp back.

That's not the way how standart/softcore leagues should work!

(btw, the ONLY reason why I still can enjoy the game is, that I'm already 88 and my
build doesn't need to get any more points, though it would be great of course...
so I basically just accepted that I probably won't make any more levels...)

So let's get this straight. You did a haku mission which you knew you'd struggle with (as you don't get to 88 without learning this) and died. Was the dc random game problem or on your end? Also why would you go back in? You know there is stability issues and if there was a hint of struggling in that area you know reentering puts yourself at risk of repeating the same problem.

Many people sustain 75+ maps solo, including myself.

All you gave me was exact reasons there should be a penalty. You made a mistake and then didn't learn from it. You charged back into the same situation hoping for different results. This is a habit the game should be teaching you to change.

How do you progress as a player if you don't learn from these mistakes? How do you truly learn it's bad without a harsh enough punishment?

Its not bad mistakes. Yes its one thing if he keeps doing something over and over with the same results. But the game keeps telling him that he needs to do it to get to level 8 haku.

So this affects 100% of users, wether to risk real XP for master XP.

It sucks that this is a decision one should have to make...

Were all trying to get the highest level as they can, and now with the expansion we all have to get level 8 in every master. Lets remove the death xp penalty from master missions. "wether inside haku, inside a tora lair, inside vagan area ect. the only exception would be tora missions that appear in the maps themself. They are just normal mobs in a normal map so xp penalty should be the same.

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levy42088 wrote:

Its not bad mistakes. Yes its one thing if he keeps doing something over and over with the same results. But the game keeps telling him that he needs to do it to get to level 8 haku.

So this affects 100% of users, wether to risk real XP for master XP.

It sucks that this is a decision one should have to make...

Were all trying to get the highest level as they can, and now with the expansion we all have to get level 8 in every master. Lets remove the death xp penalty from master missions. "wether inside haku, inside a tora lair, inside vagan area ect. the only exception would be tora missions that appear in the maps themself. They are just normal mobs in a normal map so xp penalty should be the same.

...why not just give everyone lvl 8 masters when the leagues start? How about lvl 100s with each class?

Why the hell would there be a special exception like that?

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Moosifer wrote:

So let's get this straight. You did a haku mission which you knew you'd struggle with (as you don't get to 88 without learning this) and died. Was the dc random game problem or on your end? Also why would you go back in? You know there is stability issues and if there was a hint of struggling in that area you know reentering puts yourself at risk of repeating the same problem.

...

All you gave me was exact reasons there should be a penalty. You made a mistake and then didn't learn from it. You charged back into the same situation hoping for different results. This is a habit the game should be teaching you to change.

Well, yes. This is actually exactly why there should be a softcore death penalty.

HOWEVER...

The softest-core option in a game like this should be tuned, rather carefully, to properly penalize the mistake and nothing more. Death should mean going back to the point where one decides to do something stupid, plus just a little more as idiot tax, and that should be it. As long as the player is worse off for trying the stupid, the penalty is sufficient.

In SC, if you are averaging 1 death per 2 maps, you should be treading water. Die less often, progress; die more often, regress.

So I'd say 2 maps of both XP and loot is about right. (1 map of reset, 1 additional as idiot tax.)

That said, given the loot component, defining what precisely "1 map" is... I have no good idea on how to implement. But the current penalty does seem excessive in terms of XP.

I just dont see why those people who absolutely must have a penalty cant just impose one upon themselves such as not placing their points for a level if they died. I mean its kinda the same concept as the argument of self-found versus trading, why should we be taking fun from people who would rather not incur a penalty on death when those who want to be penalized can do it to themselves. Its not as though somebody else reaching 100 has any effect on your ability to play the game, does it?

I personally would love to be able to play the craziest modded maps with my funnest characters without the added stress of having to pussyfoot around every potential threat. You see, I have a lvl 93 melee ranger, she got about 65% to lvl 94 before i accidentally hit a phys reflect mob because it was under a puddle. Lost the 10% and havent played that character since. Its too bad too, i had the most fun with that toon, hence why it made it to lvl 93, but now i cant even play it because if i lose any more of that xp it would infuriate me so I would rather avoid that feeling all together, even if it means not enjoying the game to its fullest potential. Because of this I havent even played much PoE lately. Tried torment in the beginning, even participating in economy (holy shit game is easy as fuck when trading, had 6l chest within my first day of torment), but that is becoming un-fun because i realize that no matter what i do, if i make a build that i really enjoy playing, there will become a point where its no longer worth it to play it because i would rather not progress than lose progress.

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levy42088 wrote:

Maybe GGG can host a "No XP Pentalty Weekend" Or "No XP Penalty Night" To try some ideas and see how the community responds. I have a feeling it will be less about people "abusing the system" and more about "getting everyone involved"

If this gets implemented, I can see you in Sarn camp and instead of being extremely impressed, as I am now when I see level 100 players, I'll just look and think:

"No XP penalty anymore, this guy probably died 5 million times, has a shit build and still made it to 100 lol. Whatever happened to this game being for hardcore players? Guess it's time to look for something else.". Click on uninstall.