Remove xp penalty's from death

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mazul wrote:

When you get to the point where the xp penalty actually matters, you are already punished for dying: you lose a valuable portal.

Removing the xp penalty in Standard league, would make Standard league more popular for casual players. It would be a change with no negative downsides.

Holy F... Mazul you hit the nail on the head. If they remove the XP penalty, people can't just wear full MF gear and suicide throught a map to get XP and loot. Simply because... Its impossible lol. You get 6 chances at a map. And If a map is that high above the characters level, You will be 1 or 2 shot every time u walk into a pack. So congratz, you got 6 packs worth of loot... and wasted the money to make the map. AND lose all the other loot that was still in the map.

This idea is less about low levels, and more about 90+. When the time your at "Just Leveled 0% lets do atziri" happens about once every 3 weeks lol.

I created another thread about this topic. Since I am Level 100, I have a lot of ideas and am always brainstorming ways for me to have fun with hard maps, and inviting friends to come, but they can't risk the XP. so they don't play with me.

Link to Other Thread
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1184709

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goetzjam wrote:

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Wolfarus wrote:

Being punished for dying isnt a bad concept, it's been a part games (rpg-genre games in particular) for quite some time.

It's the fact that, regardless of what you do or DONT do, sometimes PoE's single biggest flaw will kill you and take a toll on your character/time..THATS what should not be a part of the game. If it was within your power to control, then by all means punish us for our poor decisions or behaviors.

But desync-enabled death is NOT a factor in our control, and thus xp penalty's for death should be re-worked, taking that into consideration. Would the game be able to tell if a death was "deserved" or the result of desync? nope. But so long as DD (desync death) is there, death penalties should be made w/ that in mind.

Basically your point is desync in game and people die to desync, therefore there should be no penalty or it should be severely reduced.

Again, this thread is nothing but (for the most part) people trying to use desync deaths as an excuse to get the XP penalty removed or reduced.

As far as the arguments go, I won't really accept currency loss on rolling a map as "overall loss" this isn't open beta where you had to exalt maps to sustain a high pool. I would guess the vast majority of people just trans+alt until they get something they like, IF they are alching maps and running hard mobs, they should be even more prepared to die (assuming there character might not be strong enough) Unless you die right off the bat and can't take yourself into the map anymore and get some loot from it.

I hate that desync is part of the game and such a large issue for some players, but for myself I don't have these issues and I suspect others don't either. I can assure you quite a few people just hop on the "desync" bandwagon and use this as an excuse to get this and various other aspects of the game removed/changed, which overall is sad.

I don't see this thread as using desync deaths as an excuse to get the xp penalty removed. Its just another Good Point in the larger scale discussion of "What should we do with the XP Penalty"

Instead of shooting these ideas down, think about it. Also, if you dont have a character level 90, this discussion has NOTHING to do with you. I don't care if you have 50 Level 83's, you have no idea how the end game is, so really you shouldn't be in this convo.

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gilrad wrote:

1) It looks like you agree with me here? I mean, I am saying that below 75 or 80 there should be an xp penalty after all, and you're pro-XP penalty.

what I mean, is xp penalty before 75 or 80 is utterly useless. whether or not you leave it in, it doesnt affect much

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2) The fact that there's no change in drop penalty between a full party now and a full party with the proposed change isn't all that relevant.

no, its quite relevant. people gravitate towards min-maxing everything. you just gave a proposal in which going full party gives yet another advantage to partying

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3) And if they die against the boss they just lost a map, all the XP they could have gained if they did the boss last, and any chances of dropping a map to replace it or go up in tiers. I don't see why that would be a valid strategy.

if you can get a 50% of maps drop in boss, why bother do the majority of the map ? itd be MUCH faster and efficient to do boss runs. GGG has stated it wanted to make map bosses hard because they were to be optional. your proposal completely invalidates that concept.

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Bottom line is: Punishing players for dying is a bad mechanic.

no, its not. its a great mechanic and should be used MORE. at least in my opinion. all the carebear games right now where none of your actions are punished, can suck a fat one.

Im sick and tired of playing contemporary games that have only two states- 'almost won' and 'won'. poe's death penalty is a fresh breath.

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I don't see this thread as using desync deaths as an excuse to get the xp penalty removed. Its just another Good Point in the larger scale discussion of "What should we do with the XP Penalty"

Then don't use it at all in the discussion, what happens when you add well I've died to desync so I hate it too, it opens up the floodgates to arguments that don't go deep into the CORE of the discussion.

The core of the discussion should be is the current penalty acceptable for deaths, under any circumstance?

Is the current penalty fine considering desync?

The discussions should be SEPARATE instances of is this ok with this, but not ok with this. Otherwise the whole discussion turns into until desync is fixed remove penalty cause I died.

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Instead of shooting these ideas down, think about it. Also, if you dont have a character level 90, this discussion has NOTHING to do with you. I don't care if you have 50 Level 83's, you have no idea how the end game is, so really you shouldn't be in this convo.

Are you telling me to think about it, I've responded multiple times in this thread and starting reading from 1-2 comments. My profile is open, I have 2 characters level 90 and another will be really soon. This discussion has everything to do with 85+ characters, if it was only 90+ we could remove 1/2 the comments in this thread. Not sure if you were trying to call me out or if your trying to call someone else out, but next time you can check profiles (assuming they aren't blocked) so you don't look foolish.

As someone that has a level 100 character, i'd be interested in hearing how you managed to level to 100 with the current penalties, how many deaths have you faced (don't count stupid ones if you dont want to)?

Once upon a time, there were 4 difficulties. Exp penalty was 5/10/15/20. Areas were 3 times the size they are now. If you died in vaal pyramid and had forgot to put up a portal you had to go all the way back to the last waypoint and usually everything had respawned.

Areas are smaller. It's harder to get lost. You can respawn at the last door you went through. Because the areas are smaller and clear speed has gotten faster it is much more likely that things have not respawned. Exp penalty is now 0/5/10.

There has already been quite a lot of easing on death penalties. You can't even lose levels. I don't think it needs to be reduced further. Plus you have the option to play with a resurrection system or a type of permanent death. They could have just made things permadeath across the board. Hardcore an all that ya know.

Yes, it sucks to die. It's suppose to. If your dying so much that you can't lvl then you might want to revisit your build. Saying it's just because you're dying due to circumstances beyond your control... well, that's one reason I play with the resurrection option. A fair number of people play the permadeath option and have reached lvl 100.

I certainly don't want to fight my way though limbo, don't want a time out before I can get back to fighting, don't want to run naked to my corpse, don't want to lose gear or currency to be revived. Time based exp reduction is like living in a sterile bubble. Linking drops to deaths is so bad in so many ways, I can't believe you people even thought of that.

(if my numbers are wrong I blame it on senility)

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levy42088 wrote:

I don't see this thread as using desync deaths as an excuse to get the xp penalty removed. Its just another Good Point in the larger scale discussion of "What should we do with the XP Penalty"

Instead of shooting these ideas down, think about it. Also, if you dont have a character level 90, this discussion has NOTHING to do with you. I don't care if you have 50 Level 83's, you have no idea how the end game is, so really you shouldn't be in this convo.

why should there be something done to xp penalty ? it has been fine, throughout 2 years now. in fact, it was reduced by 50% from open beta.

I understand some people wont stop before its completely removed but theres no real reason, besides blaming desync, to remove it and plenty of reasons to not to.

the 'deaths are beyond my control so remove any punishment' is self-entitlement artifact of the 2010s and telling that some people have not been around to play games in the 90s.
games that had real consequences when you made bad choices. games which required you to replay missions from start if you screwed up somewhere by trial and error. games which had glitches that even when you did everything right you'd still fail. games that frustrated you but also when you beat certain missions they were so memorable they stuck in your memory for 15-20 years and possibly forever.

dont really mean to sound like an old fart, but the carebear nature of games nowadays disgust me.

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goetzjam wrote:

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I don't see this thread as using desync deaths as an excuse to get the xp penalty removed. Its just another Good Point in the larger scale discussion of "What should we do with the XP Penalty"

Then don't use it at all in the discussion, what happens when you add well I've died to desync so I hate it too, it opens up the floodgates to arguments that don't go deep into the CORE of the discussion.

The core of the discussion should be is the current penalty acceptable for deaths, under any circumstance?

Is the current penalty fine considering desync?

The discussions should be SEPARATE instances of is this ok with this, but not ok with this. Otherwise the whole discussion turns into until desync is fixed remove penalty cause I died.

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Instead of shooting these ideas down, think about it. Also, if you dont have a character level 90, this discussion has NOTHING to do with you. I don't care if you have 50 Level 83's, you have no idea how the end game is, so really you shouldn't be in this convo.

Are you telling me to think about it, I've responded multiple times in this thread and starting reading from 1-2 comments. My profile is open, I have 2 characters level 90 and another will be really soon. This discussion has everything to do with 85+ characters, if it was only 90+ we could remove 1/2 the comments in this thread. Not sure if you were trying to call me out or if your trying to call someone else out, but next time you can check profiles (assuming they aren't blocked) so you don't look foolish.

As someone that has a level 100 character, i'd be interested in hearing how you managed to level to 100 with the current penalties, how many deaths have you faced (don't count stupid ones if you dont want to)?

There is no simple removal of desync from this discussion, because it is about suffering a death penalty when you have no choice in the matter. I know you claim to not have desync, so you probably don't know what it's like, but when you're running through clearing mobs, then something dangerous happens and you try to run away, but the game teleports you back into them (due to resyncing while you thought you got away) and you die--that's not your fault. You were doing everything you could to escape the danger.

In short, it's about both desync and death penalties. The reason the penalties are getting so much attention is because GGG refuses to do anything that would actually fix desync. Even if you agree with their stance, you have to acknowledge the wrongness of dying for something out of your control.

So, the penalty should be either a player choice in what to pay, or removal of the penalty. I honestly don't care which, but losing exp in this way is very discouraging, and there have been plenty of occasions where I just got fed up, said "fuck it," and logged (somtimes for days or weeks at a time). Lots of people have had similar experience. It's really not good for the game, and the devs should at least explore alternatives to see if there's a better way.

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goetzjam wrote:

As someone that has a level 100 character, i'd be interested in hearing how you managed to level to 100 with the current penalties, how many deaths have you faced (don't count stupid ones if you dont want to)?

A Lot, A Lot, A LOT of Maps. I died once from 94-95, twice from 97-98, once from 98-99, and thankfully none from 99-100 (I wouldn't give my self the opportunity to die) Oh ANY I was Max Block, I still had to take precautions.

So from 94-99 I died 4 time. 4x 5 hours xp lost = 20 Hours XP to have to make up. So at 2 Rotations per hour. Each 78 map costed us 1ex. so 20x2 = 40 exalts worth of maps extra I had to buy and run. Not including the other 5 people im with, also putting down 2 maps each an hour.


From level 97 on though, I didn't go ANYWHERE near a Vaal'd Map, didnt run ANYTHING UnID, NO MAPS WITH +% Monster Damage, no maps with any -max res, NO PUBLIC RANDOMS, Not Doing DOM, No Reflects / doing courtyard bosses half the time, only running maps with pack size blue/ no beyond.

And I became an anal teammate when it came to opening boxes.

Since I died because someone rushed open an ice nova box with -max res, I made sure EVERYONE in my group stood Far away from each box. I will ID it, And Will count off 3, 2, 1.

So um, given all this, I can safely say, the game was NOT FUN at this time. I don't like being stressed and yelling at people to not roll ref.

At least give me the option if I want to do a hard map without risking my REAL LIFE TIME. I wasn't able to do anything until I hit level 100. So now I have a blast, doing double beyond, atziri, crazy RIP maps. I wish other people could experience mapping at level 100. This is why I wish for the penalty to be reduced. Not for me, but for my friends who wish to take the night off, and do some crazy maps with friends without the risk for that night.

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There is no simple removal of desync from this discussion, because it is about suffering a death penalty when you have no choice in the matter. I know you claim to not have desync, so you probably don't know what it's like, but when you're running through clearing mobs, then something dangerous happens and you try to run away, but the game teleports you back into them (due to resyncing while you thought you got away) and you die--that's not your fault. You were doing everything you could to escape the danger.

Running away like a chicken instead of being a man and killing the monsters is why you died. In all seriousness if your running away from monsters that MIGHT block your pathing you should probably be using a quartz flask, especially if you have issues with desync. If you know you have issues with desync, you probably should be running /oos macro.

So while I may not experience the issue myself, I do know what steps help prevent or deal with the issue and absolutely HATE the fact people use desync to try and remove game features.

If you do everything YOU can do to prevent it and it still happens (i'd love to see a video of someone doing this) then we can discuss the penalty more. But even if 1/2 of the total deaths are desync, out of that what percentage are players that simply don't prepare or do anything to HELP THEMSELVES?

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So, the penalty should be either a player choice in what to pay, or removal of the penalty. I honestly don't care which, but losing exp in this way is very discouraging, and there have been plenty of occasions where I just got fed up, said "fuck it," and logged (somtimes for days or weeks at a time). Lots of people have had similar experience. It's really not good for the game, and the devs should at least explore alternatives to see if there's a better way.

Making this game casual friendly isn't good for this game either, will it result in more players, yes, but that isn't the direction GGG sold us (well technically its f2p) or told us it was going.

EDIT: Adding reply here for the @100 journey. I understand it took you time, patience and planning to get to 100, you want to see that reduced so that others have AN easier time getting to it? Don't you feel that is kind of counter intuitive to the whole working to progress your character?

I was waiting when the 'real life time' argument would come in.
because its always absolutely ironic, at least to me it is.

GGG says it should take literally months to get to 100

so someone with real life time to get to 100...will likely complain about 'wasting' real time life
anyone else see some hilarious irony right here ?

heres a cool thought-
you COULD have the same fun youre having right now (atziri, double beyond, crazy mods) without ever hitting 100. or 99. or 95.

100 is a goal set by you and you only. if you didnt have FUN because you wanted the 100, it was only because of an artificial constraint placed by you. just like playing something like self found is an artificial constraint.

so the conclusion is quite simple. you made the game NOT FUN yourself by setting your goal to be 100.
the fun was always there for you to have.
yet you blame the game for it.