Remove xp penalty's from death

So after 14 pages (a thread this large will hopefully have gotten the dev's attention and at least got them thinking about the points / idea's posted here) let's recap the OP and some of the idea's for the community members who dont want to sift thru this many replies:

Desync exists (this thread isnt technically about the desync issue itself)

Because desync exists, it can (and often does, depending on your basic build, skillset and amount of action going on in-game) unfairly kill you, even though you the player were not in harms way or doing something stupid that the server THOUGHT you did.

Higher-level players (75+) are especially hit hard by this, because not only can it erase a few hours worth of grinding, it also wastes precious maps and currency used on those maps.

Some of the more notable idea's to fix this given it's core problem are:

1. Eliminate XP penalty for death outright, until (or if) desync is ever fixed.
2. Move player/monster positioning trust from the server to the client (this would fix a fair amount of the causes of desync, right?)
3. Eliminate xp penalty, and put a 1 hour 1/2 xp gain on the player. Dying before the timer is up resets the timer to the full hour, but you'll never loose previous xp gained.
4. Give the player a choice of paying the xp loss, or paying a fee of 10 alts or trans orbs

higher level players are not 75+. at 75 you get 98% experience from a 67 level location. which means you can run library all day long and it wont be significantly worse xp than running a 78 map, at all

you want to start at something like 85+ for xp penalties to matter in todays realities, where any map below 75 is very very very easy to obtain.

and honestly I hate all the ideas. leave the xp penalty be. its already as small as its ever been since beta. yeah, desync happens. so what ?

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Majmun wrote:

If they remove xp penalty people will respec their characters immediately.
Players will be running courtyards with 1.5k hp, minus res and 500k gmp setups. You have CWDT? Why? It's pointless. You can setup your cast on death+portal insted.
You using flasks? Why? Equip 5 quicksilvers and you're ready to go. Curses? IC? Shields?...

Yet another poster conflating "remove the xp penalty" with "remove all death penalty altogether and make it a slap on the wrist".

There's plenty of alternative ideas already mentioned. More than just " currency cost for dying" or "reduced xp gain for 1 hour".

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gilrad wrote:

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Majmun wrote:

If they remove xp penalty people will respec their characters immediately.
Players will be running courtyards with 1.5k hp, minus res and 500k gmp setups. You have CWDT? Why? It's pointless. You can setup your cast on death+portal insted.
You using flasks? Why? Equip 5 quicksilvers and you're ready to go. Curses? IC? Shields?...

Yet another poster conflating "remove the xp penalty" with "remove all death penalty altogether and make it a slap on the wrist".

There's plenty of alternative ideas already mentioned. More than just " currency cost for dying" or "reduced xp gain for 1 hour".

most of ideas mentioned here fall into these two categories (no xp loss/ conditional xp loss)

lets take your idea for example

"

I'd revise that:

-You keep items in your inventory (because the risk of losing them greatly limits item swap options and makes managing high-quantity currencies like scrolls and scraps a pain in the ass)

-50% of map drops is put into a special "boss buffer" that is released when you kill the boss (so in other words you get less items if you don't kill the boss, you have to kill the boss to get the full map's worth of drops).

-XP penalty applies up until level 75 or 80.
.

this really translates to 'no xp penalties' in reality. its quite simple to see why:

1. before level 80, 10% exp is really miniscule. no one cares that much about losing 10% at 79. a daily lvl 6 zana map at 79 will give you more than 10%

2. you propose gimping your drops because of death, but if you play in full party a death in the map already gimps your drops since you're locked out. so clearly it doesnt matter with full party. thats one.

3. you propose putting 50% of drops into boss. well, that doesnt change much except people will try to zerg boss first and then clear map, if possible.

this is reality. exp is something that scales really well to punish people for dying. thats why people are generally butthurt. people dont care much about currency loss unless its big currency loss. even then, a level 99 softcore player cares waaay more about 10% exp than 1ex (and at 1ex price per death people will CRY WOLF, please believe me)

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toyotatundra wrote:

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thedestroyerofkids wrote:

I personally think there SHOULD be a death penalty, but one that doesnt punish blindly. I also dont think it should be XP that is lost. I personally think you should gain xp at a rate of 50% for 20% of your current level.

So you can die 5 million times and still level up eventually, right?

NO, THANKS. If this ever makes it into the game, I will uninstall immediately.

You promise?

"

grepman wrote:

this really translates to 'no xp penalties' in reality. its quite simple to see why:

1. before level 80, 10% exp is really miniscule. no one cares that much about losing 10% at 79. a daily lvl 6 zana map at 79 will give you more than 10%

2. you propose gimping your drops because of death, but if you play in full party a death in the map already gimps your drops since you're locked out. so clearly it doesnt matter with full party. thats one.

3. you propose putting 50% of drops into boss. well, that doesnt change much except people will try to zerg boss first and then clear map, if possible.

this is reality. exp is something that scales really well to punish people for dying. thats why people are generally butthurt. people dont care much about currency loss unless its big currency loss. even then, a level 99 softcore player cares waaay more about 10% exp than 1ex (and at 1ex price per death people will CRY WOLF, please believe me)

1) It looks like you agree with me here? I mean, I am saying that below 75 or 80 there should be an xp penalty after all, and you're pro-XP penalty.

2) The fact that there's no change in drop penalty between a full party now and a full party with the proposed change isn't all that relevant.

3) And if they die against the boss they just lost a map, all the XP they could have gained if they did the boss last, and any chances of dropping a map to replace it or go up in tiers. I don't see why that would be a valid strategy.


Bottom line is: Punishing players for dying is a bad mechanic. The ideal solution would be one that doesn't cause so much salt, but still makes death something players want to avoid at all costs. The current system fails on both fronts; it has a really harsh psychological factor attached having the player lose progress, while at the same time it's meaningless for those who decide to "settle" on a level and stop caring about getting that next passive point.

Losing a map and any potential map drops seems like a pretty good deterrent against dying to me; you're not going to get very far if you die with any kind of regularity, but the occasional death won't set you back multiple map clears-worth of progress either.

Being punished for dying isnt a bad concept, it's been a part games (rpg-genre games in particular) for quite some time.

It's the fact that, regardless of what you do or DONT do, sometimes PoE's single biggest flaw will kill you and take a toll on your character/time..THATS what should not be a part of the game. If it was within your power to control, then by all means punish us for our poor decisions or behaviors.

But desync-enabled death is NOT a factor in our control, and thus xp penalty's for death should be re-worked, taking that into consideration. Would the game be able to tell if a death was "deserved" or the result of desync? nope. But so long as DD (desync death) is there, death penalties should be made w/ that in mind.

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gilrad wrote:

Bottom line is: Punishing players for dying is a bad mechanic. The ideal solution would be one that doesn't cause so much salt, but still makes death something players want to avoid at all costs.

You clearly didn't think before typing.

The proposed "solutions" in this thread are all so laughibly negligible that they do not dignify any kind of response. Seriously, if you want death to be THAT meaningless, you're playing the wrong game.

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Wolfarus wrote:

Being punished for dying isnt a bad concept, it's been a part games (rpg-genre games in particular) for quite some time.

It's the fact that, regardless of what you do or DONT do, sometimes PoE's single biggest flaw will kill you and take a toll on your character/time..THATS what should not be a part of the game. If it was within your power to control, then by all means punish us for our poor decisions or behaviors.

But desync-enabled death is NOT a factor in our control, and thus xp penalty's for death should be re-worked, taking that into consideration. Would the game be able to tell if a death was "deserved" or the result of desync? nope. But so long as DD (desync death) is there, death penalties should be made w/ that in mind.

Basically your point is desync in game and people die to desync, therefore there should be no penalty or it should be severely reduced.

Again, this thread is nothing but (for the most part) people trying to use desync deaths as an excuse to get the XP penalty removed or reduced.

As far as the arguments go, I won't really accept currency loss on rolling a map as "overall loss" this isn't open beta where you had to exalt maps to sustain a high pool. I would guess the vast majority of people just trans+alt until they get something they like, IF they are alching maps and running hard mobs, they should be even more prepared to die (assuming there character might not be strong enough) Unless you die right off the bat and can't take yourself into the map anymore and get some loot from it.

I hate that desync is part of the game and such a large issue for some players, but for myself I don't have these issues and I suspect others don't either. I can assure you quite a few people just hop on the "desync" bandwagon and use this as an excuse to get this and various other aspects of the game removed/changed, which overall is sad.

I would like to suggest the experience penalty on death
for merciless to be moved back up to 15% (LIKE IT USED TO BE.)

then, ggg can sell an MTX that you can skin on your chest armor
to reduce your experience penalty back to 7% (LIKE IT WAS IN CRUEL)
BUT, in big neon green letters on your back it says.

IDIEALOT




obviously kidding, but wtf? this is supposed to be a tough game.
I HATE dieing, but when it does happen my heart is usually pumping fast in
the moment and even if im pissed, I go to get my exp back and kill w/ever got me.

desync isn't going anywhere and is not so bad to begin with if you learn to minimize it.
that's just the way it is, nothing else to be said about it.

if they removed desync and also removed all the mechanics in the game
associated with why we have desync, guess what? much shittier game overall.