Mechanics thread
" Thanks for that, updated. |
|
" You're welcome. Thanks for making such a useful thread. It was incredibly helpful to read when I was getting going. Open beta is still BETA.
|
|
|
I've a question about endurance charges.
Let's say that i have a character level 40, with 50% DR from Armour Rating according to the defense tab. I assume that this 50% DR is calculated against mobs of my level that deal an average damage on hit. When an endurance charge is applied, in my tab it goes from 50% to 55%. If at the same level, i fight against an enemy that has a higher hit damage than the average, the defense tab will still show 50% DR, 55% DR (1 end-charge), but it is not real, because that DR% was calculated with the average damage of my current level, so the question is: Does the endurance charge add the 5% DR calculated for the average hit damage of my current level, or it adds 5% DR after than the DR% is calculated according to the hit damage of the enemy that i am fighting? Because, if it's calculated for the average hit damage of my current level, it will not be an effective 5% DR against an enemy that hits harder, when i am at the same level. I hope that someone understands what i am saying. :P "The harder the game, the better."
|
|
|
R = A / (A + 12D) + 0.05N
N is number endurance charges. Endurance always gives 5% reduction per charge, regardless of the situation. That amount adds to your reduction from armour. Relative reduction values of endurance, if it behaved as a separate source of reduction instead of adding: here. TL;DR In my duelist build, 4 endurance charges approach temporal chains in defensive value (about 36% multiplicative reduction with a granite flask rolling just below the 90% DR cap against a very hard-hitting boss) Graphs of the effective health value of armour past endurance charges in various different contexts here. Similar analysis of evasion here. Analysis of hybrid gear is considerably more in-depth. That is forthcoming. I have to say though that I'm pretty excited about my hybrid-armour duelist, and I'm disappointed everyone's so focused on iron reflexes. After seeing the graphs, anyway. -- I don't have alpha access, that was a LONG time ago. Last edited by Zakaluka#1191 on Sep 3, 2012, 12:40:30 AM
|
|
|
Thanks for the clarification, and nice data shown in the other posts.
Also, fo what it's worth it, i like dr/eva based hybrids more than pure dr, so im gonna take a look at those graphics. "The harder the game, the better."
|
|
" i love how simple the equation is yet so large in effect. anyways, the most optimal hybrid armor benefit via moderation on passives, is to take moderate amount of dex and armor boosts. evasion per level up mixes with dex's evasion boost while have to get plain armor boosts to balance things out. of course still get the leather and steel node, can't pass a 80% "total" boost for 3 points >.> am i wrong about this sort of balance of moderation maxing or will you go full out in tests? edit: forgot to add that armor/eva shields are painfully weak compared to pure stat shields or other hybrid shields. but that brings up question on what block recovery does exactly. even the modless shields are far less than double the pure stat version though of armor or eva Last edited by soul4hdwn#0698 on Sep 3, 2012, 2:55:36 AM
|
|
|
First, my whole viewpoint pretends evasion contributes to EH. It's tricky to make that idea actually work, for obvious reasons. I'm talking about face-tanking with hybrid armour, rarely ever doing hit-and-run. For that to work, defense is good but regen is the real deciding factor.
And my duelist is only level 42 right now. Been spending more time with the templar. " I can't really say yet, it's pretty complicated and it'll take some thought. The interesting thing to notice when you plot dEH/dAR and dEH/dEV: in most situations the surfaces cross. Next, if you change your situation (few hard hitting mobs vs many weak mobs), if you change your build, the curves shift and scale relative to one another. Two interesting results: --------------- You lose a lot of total rating (armour or evasion, either way) by taking hybrid gear. This is a fact, because although the total rating granted by base items is about the same, stacking %IAR/%IER and +IAR +IER ends up worth far less per affix when the individual base values are lower. But, here's the interesting bit. Evasion rating is worth many times more EH than armour rating at low evasion values, and tapers off quickly to usually wind up being worth much less than armour, per affix. On the flip side, armour rating starts out usually worth much less EH per affix than evasion, but scales up hyperbolically until it becomes worth more than evasion rating. Basically, early on evasion is strong. Later on armour becomes stronger, but that first bit of evasion you put on is still worth many times more. summary: by going hybrid you lose a lot more armour rating than you gain evasion rating. But that first 30% or so chance to evade is so incredibly point-efficient that the trade should be worth it. -------------- Second thing: first thing is a bit misleading, because the context will change as you play. This is the interesting bit, armour's EH value moves all over the place, when you fight a tougher pack, or a boss, or when you flask. Evasion's EH value only shifts down when you meet a high-accuracy opponent, and I think those usually include just the easy opponents. Rhoas might be about the only non-trivial monster type with high accuracy, and they're not a terrible danger in melee for an armour class. Basically, you're covered both ways. 60% unflasked reduction after endurance for those archers since your evasion is very low against them anyway. 60% reduction/40% EV with iron skin/granite and reflexes flasks, against a %IPD aura bear. Each stat supports a different situation. So you can't really "optimize". For example, in the build I'm going to be running, against a large boss armour affixes are always worth less than half what evasion affixes are. But against a %faster run/attack rare pack, the armour is always worth several times more than the evasion is. -------------- Compared to the armour build, percent effective health is MUCH higher for hybrid ev/ar near the top of the gear curve. I suspect that if I do an IR analysis, it'll be superior to the hybrid setup until about 50% of stat budget, at which point the hybrid setup should pass it up. Just a guess. My context, again, is a shieldless duelist. He gets 33% block from dual wield, to make it comparable to the templar build I was looking at. He gets 4 endurance while farming, 5 with a Kaom's switched on for bosses. It's all just math at this point. -- I don't have alpha access, that was a LONG time ago. Last edited by Zakaluka#1191 on Sep 3, 2012, 2:41:13 PM
|
|
|
+1 to the thread, and +1 to previous post.
I've a question, do you also consider mob critical hit chance / modifier? I've the feeling that armour would be less efficient than evasion, because of the increased damage and also the 2nd roll of evasion to avoid critical hits. If they are considered, nvm. "The harder the game, the better."
|
|
|
That is a very good point, I still haven't included the second chance to dodge.
Since most mobs just have 5% crit/150% CD, it should cause less than a 2% shift in the EH curve, not enough to significantly effect the relative values of armour and evasion. But I'll have to do it before posting actual results. Thanks. -- I don't have alpha access, that was a LONG time ago. Last edited by Zakaluka#1191 on Sep 3, 2012, 2:48:01 PM
|
|
|
so is it armor being the buffer to evasion, or evasion being the buffer to armor? half joke half serious here. the point that both together is already nice, but how nice is what we'll find out right?
adding shield or duel wielding is an extra layer of evasion roughly via the blocking. that's an important factor as you said. |
|
