Mechanics thread

Not had time to read all 73 pages sorry.

Could you please add the mechanics of minions to the main post.

Do they have their own base damage or it that dictated by the weapon your using.

Again with elemental damage on minions.

I know that the minions stat sheet is still a work in progress but until that it done its pretty impossible to work out exactly where their damage numbers are coming from.

Minions have their own base damage. Zombies and skeletons do physical damage, spectres do whatever damage they used to do before they died.
Their damage is affected by minion damage passives skills, support gems linked to the minion skill, and auras.

Other damage stats from your gear or passive skills do not affect minions.

So, I assume we don't know yet whether the +15% minion damage nodes also applies to the +elemental damages they get from auras and support gems?

where can i find the base attack speed or attacks per second of skills like leapslam, groundslam, sweep and so on.

and what skills have their own attackspeed and what skills dont have? cleave? rain of arrows?

are those skills made "faster" with attackspeed from

gear (not weapon?!)?
skillgems (faster attacks)?
passives?


thanks 4 any info

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Malice wrote:

Minions have their own base damage. Zombies and skeletons do physical damage, spectres do whatever damage they used to do before they died.
Their damage is affected by minion damage passives skills, support gems linked to the minion skill, and auras.

Other damage stats from your gear or passive skills do not affect minions.

Thanks Malice.

Any chance of getting to know what that initial base damage is as nowhere to find it.

I'm presuming that their base damage would also increase as the level of the gem increased, or again would that come from minon passives only aside from support gems.

So increased elemental damage gems would not work with minons unless they are spectres with their own base elemental damage.

Since they use weapons, and have their own base physical damage, then do they melee based support gems work for them?

"

zharmad wrote:

So, I assume we don't know yet whether the +15% minion damage nodes also applies to the +elemental damages they get from auras and support gems?

good to assume something doesn't work instead of assuming something does. however due to the wording, it is very likely that all damage is increased.

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Khastro wrote:

where can i find the base attack speed or attacks per second of skills like leapslam, groundslam, sweep and so on.

and what skills have their own attackspeed and what skills dont have? cleave? rain of arrows?

are those skills made "faster" with attackspeed from

gear (not weapon?!)?
skillgems (faster attacks)?
passives?


thanks 4 any info

well i know one of the skills' forum page has a listed attack speed, don't remember if ground slam or sweep. might have to ask devs directly.
as for what increases the speeds, every single attack speed mod will effect attack skill speeds (weapon mods, acc, equip, passives, and supports).

"

Talismannn wrote:

Thanks Malice.

Any chance of getting to know what that initial base damage is as nowhere to find it.

I'm presuming that their base damage would also increase as the level of the gem increased, or again would that come from minon passives only aside from support gems.

So increased elemental damage gems would not work with minons unless they are spectres with their own base elemental damage.

Since they use weapons, and have their own base physical damage, then do they melee based support gems work for them?

totems and minions (except spectre) increase in stats on the respective skills' level up as noted from the specific skill threads. spectre's stats are based on the monster it was originally or created from. support gems work on all minions and totems, specially in spectre's case. if a wrath aura is affecting some zombies which have weapon elemental damage support gem, they will get boosted. spectres have thier own mods from the monster they are summoned from. in all cases it is impossible to know the exact damage they are doing without knowing stats of monsters we are attacking (with and at? lol).

And here's the plot of EHPS vs. base evasion rating against that same boss. Can't really talk about "EH" in an avoidance build, because, well, we get no reduction. EHPS is a completely analogous notion when it comes to mitigation vs avoidance, though, and the two graphs can be compared side-by-side. It means, "how much more effective are my flasks and regen". If you think it through, %EH = %EHPS for an armour player (if his armour rating is the only variable).

This subject is much less complicated than the last because there's no sliding scale for damage intake. This will need minor adjustments to account for the crit avoidance feature of evasion; I've treated it like .10 evasion, so the curves will actually be slightly steeper than shown. Assumed monster's accuracy rating is 600 (should be close to the displayed estimate around level 68-70).

Basically it functions strangely because blind doesn't apply instantly. As a fight goes on you shift eventually from the no-blind curve into the +blind curve. But evasion characters can get extremely high EHPS compared to mitigation characters.

This "gear curve" I am mentioning is the best possible gear in the game plus level 17 grace. It comes out to 8800 base evasion rating. So all the numbers I've listed are for about 4400 base evasion rating.

EHPS vs base evasion for build 1: 218% incr. evasion rating, acrobatics+4, temporal chains, 100% reflexes flask. Halfway up the gear curve, 540% EHPS.

EHPS vs base evasion, build 1 + blind: halfway up the gear curve, 2200% EHPS.

EHPS vs base evasion for build 2: Like build 1 except only 168% incr. evasion rating. Halfway up the gear curve, 500% EHPS.

EHPS vs base evasion, build 2 + blind: halfway up the gear curve, 2000% EHPS.

EHPS vs base evasion, build 3: like build 1, except 168% incr. evasion rating, and no acrobatics. Add a granite flask of iron skin and assume 2k damage per hit, which is 45% reduction. Halfway up the gear curve, 700% EHPS due to avoidance and reduction combined.

EHPS vs base evasion, build 3 + blind: halfway up the gear curve, 2800% EHPS.

My conclusion is that there's really nothing wrong with either system at the moment. Players just haven't adapted to them yet. Maybe ES is a little bit too easy to exploit as a ranged character, that's about all that could need tuning.

you noted acrobatics yet a lot of people been saying it is lacking in its current state, do you have anything to show about it for or against math-wise?

yeah I posted curves with acrobatics and without acrobatics.

The curve without acrobatics is actually noticeably STEEPER because you gain access to granite flasks. But you can still get sufficient EH (wow above 2000%) with acrobatics under blind. I also don't like the idea of carrying defensive flasks; I'd much rather have 2-3 diamond flasks for instant boss kills. So if you're not going to granite, acrobatics is pretty strong. If you're willing to lug granites around, you shouldn't pick up acrobatics.

It looks like it'd be pretty strong if used in a clever way with godly gear. This is the bit of context we're all missing on both these systems at the moment. None of us have godly gear.

Another point of interest, the derivative, dEH/dE is a decreasing hyperbolic curve (K/R^0.2, where K is determined by build, how much evasion you have, and how many sources of avoidance/reduction you have). The derivative of EH vs. armour is an increasing hyperbolic curve. This makes sense in both cases: physical DR is capped, combined avoidance isn't.

Lastly, the cherrypicking thing again. I'm looking here for builds that make sense to me, not really completely "max defense" builds. If I wanted to, I could get a templar to 10,000% EH by - running 8 endurance, 70% block, dual curse enfeeble+TC, blind, totem, determination and grace, and no offense whatsoever. It just doesn't make sense, you need to be able to actually kill things. It's also prohibitively expensive to roll multiple-green socket configurations in unaligned gear (1 for FA, one for blind). From a build standpoint, I understand wanting blind+TC+acrobatics. That's why I chose this build to compare.

Do dual wield passives work with dual wielding wands?