Mechanics thread

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Kissan wrote:

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Spectruma wrote:

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Malice wrote:

There are other sources of physical damage, such as bear trap (a trap), ethereal knives & detonate dead (both spells)

So does ethereal knives get boosted from both spell and projectile damage?

Yes, tooltip says that you launch X projectiles, so projectiles damage wotks too.

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soul4hdwn wrote:

and the 3-5% physical damage boost belt, and because it is physical damage, hatred aura and the added fire support gem.

Yes for the belt
No for Hatred and Added Fire Damage, they add damage to attacks only.

Yes for Hatred, my dual wand shadow uses that combo and the damage bonus is significant since it's percentage based and Ethereal Knives can do some serious physical damage. Faster projectiles support also adds damage.

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raic000 wrote:

Yes for Hatred, my dual wand shadow uses that combo and the damage bonus is significant since it's percentage based and Ethereal Knives can do some serious physical damage. Faster projectiles support also adds damage.

Indeed, i didn't notice that only anger and wrath added damage to attacks and hatred was generic.
After verification, added fire damage will works too.

I've got a question about Elemental Equilibrium, specifically about multi-element attacks.

Let's say you hit a monster with an Infernal Blow and do following damages:

40 physical (weapon)
20 cold (weapon enchantment)
12 lightning (gloves)
40 fire (infernal blow)

The question is whether EE lumps all these damages together and designates this attack as fire by the strongest element and makes the struck monster 25% more resistant to fire and 25% less to everything else for the following attack... or it treats elemental damages involved one by one so the actual damages would be (by the sequence from above)

20 cold (applies 25% vulnerability to lightning)
15 lightning (applies 25% vulnerability to fire)
50 fire

Mods question
Can spell 1)damage mod, 2)weapon only spell damage mod and 3)weapon only spell damage and mana mod be in the same rare weapon?

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raic000 wrote:

I've got a question about Elemental Equilibrium, specifically about multi-element attacks.

Let's say you hit a monster with an Infernal Blow and do following damages:

40 physical (weapon)
20 cold (weapon enchantment)
12 lightning (gloves)
40 fire (infernal blow)

The question is whether EE lumps all these damages together and designates this attack as fire by the strongest element and makes the struck monster 25% more resistant to fire and 25% less to everything else for the following attack... or it treats elemental damages involved one by one so the actual damages would be (by the sequence from above)

20 cold (applies 25% vulnerability to lightning)
15 lightning (applies 25% vulnerability to fire)
50 fire

There's a pretty in-depth thread here: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/23775/highlight/

But here's a quick(?) break down.

Doing any fire / lightning / cold damage with an attack triggers that part of the passive. So for the purposes of EE, dealing 40 / 40 / 12 / 20 (Phys/Fire/Light/Cold) is identical to 40 / 1 / 1 / 500 or 500 / 1 / 1 / 1.

However, there's an exceptional case for attacks that use all three elements: namely, nothing happens. Again, dealing damage with all three elements in the same attack prevents EE from activating.

But EE still activates when two elements are used simultaneously. This means that a 40 / 40 / 0 / 40 attack would leave the monster neutral to fire and cold (+25% - 25% = 0), but with a -50% debuff to its lightning resistance.

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Softspoken wrote:

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raic000 wrote:

I've got a question about Elemental Equilibrium, specifically about multi-element attacks.

Let's say you hit a monster with an Infernal Blow and do following damages:

40 physical (weapon)
20 cold (weapon enchantment)
12 lightning (gloves)
40 fire (infernal blow)

The question is whether EE lumps all these damages together and designates this attack as fire by the strongest element and makes the struck monster 25% more resistant to fire and 25% less to everything else for the following attack... or it treats elemental damages involved one by one so the actual damages would be (by the sequence from above)

20 cold (applies 25% vulnerability to lightning)
15 lightning (applies 25% vulnerability to fire)
50 fire

There's a pretty in-depth thread here: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/23775/highlight/

But here's a quick(?) break down.

Doing any fire / lightning / cold damage with an attack triggers that part of the passive. So for the purposes of EE, dealing 40 / 40 / 12 / 20 (Phys/Fire/Light/Cold) is identical to 40 / 1 / 1 / 500 or 500 / 1 / 1 / 1.

However, there's an exceptional case for attacks that use all three elements: namely, nothing happens. Again, dealing damage with all three elements in the same attack prevents EE from activating.

But EE still activates when two elements are used simultaneously. This means that a 40 / 40 / 0 / 40 attack would leave the monster neutral to fire and cold (+25% - 25% = 0), but with a -50% debuff to its lightning resistance.

Thanks, just the thread I needed, everything cleared up.

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FateAnomaly wrote:

Mods question
Can spell 1)damage mod, 2)weapon only spell damage mod and 3)weapon only spell damage and mana mod be in the same rare weapon?

You can have a weapon-only spell damage mod + weapon-only spell damage & mana on same weapon.

For spell damage mods i'm not sure if they can spawn on weapons.

Couldn't really find it anywhere, so I thought I'd post it.

When using Dual strike, which critical hit ratio applies to it? The main hand or the off-hand (my guess is on the main hand)?

Thanks in advance~

There's 2 things I'd really like to know:

1. What are the effects of Frenzy, Power, and Endurance charges on your minions and on monsters?
2. How does the physical damage reduction of Endurance charges interact with Armour?

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0nin wrote:

There's 2 things I'd really like to know:

1. What are the effects of Frenzy, Power, and Endurance charges on your minions and on monsters?
2. How does the physical damage reduction of Endurance charges interact with Armour?

1) No effect on minions. What effect on monsters? I don't understand. If a monster has endurance charges, they get another 5% dr per endurance charge. This is why the bears with enduring cry are so damn annoying.

2) DR from endurance adds to DR from armour rating. But in this case its additive behavior makes endurance extremely powerful, because DR from armour on its own suffers from diminishing returns.

Reduction = Armour / ( Armour + 12 * Damage )

Damage is pre-mitigation (how big it was before your armor mitigated it) so you can't use the size of a hit you actually received without a little more tinkering:

Mitigated damage = Damage * (1 - R)
^^ This "reduced damage" is how much damage your health actually took, after mitigation.

But now if you change it to include endurance charges,
R = 0.05 * E + A / ( A + 12 * D )
M = D * ( 1 - R )

combined: R = 0.05 * E + A / ( A + 12 * M / [ 1 - R ] )
the interesting thing to plot is effective health: EH = H / ( 1 - R )

now it's become a rather complicated math problem, hard to express EH in closed form by hand :). Use a modern calculator for that part. E is number of endurance charges, R is reduction, A is armour, M is damage post-mitigation, and H is the size of your health pool.

I spent a lot of time plotting this out in various ways, and you can go back to the last 6 pages of so of this thread to see some of those plots. Endurance and armour rating interact in a really interesting way. But I will summarize it all for you very quickly:

Having a high number of endurance charges tends to resist the diminishing returns effect of armour rating, and makes each point of armour worth considerably more EH. That is, with 20% flat DR from endurance not only can you absorb more damage, but adding armour rating does more for you than it would otherwise.

Hope it helps, hope i'm not making a nuisance of myself on this topic :)