Mechanics thread

What defensive mechanics do apply to secondary damage? I know it can't be blocked,dodged or evaded, but can say the damage from detonate dead be shifted (Incandescent Heart), mitigated (fire res), or reduced by decreased/less modifiers (fortify, arctic armour)? Can it be avoided with Glitterdisc?

Does Coruscating Elixir have a damage type(as in phys/elemental/chaos)? Can Coruscating Elixir/Doedre's Elixir, or any secondary damage, proc on hit effects?

Thanks!

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xKomachi wrote:
What defensive mechanics do apply to secondary damage?

Everything that does not involve Attack/Spell distinctions. Damage Taken As, mitigation and Damage Taken modifiers all apply as per usual.

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xKomachi wrote:
Does Coruscating Elixir have a damage type(as in phys/elemental/chaos)? Can Coruscating Elixir/Doedre's Elixir, or any secondary damage, proc on hit effects?

Coruscating Elixir does not deal any Damage, it causes Life loss/removal.
Doedre's Elixir can trigger when-Hit, not on-Hit.
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Vipermagi wrote:
Everything that does not involve Attack/Spell distinctions. Damage Taken As, mitigation and Damage Taken modifiers all apply as per usual.

Except, of course, modifiers to damage taken that specify 'when hit', like Fortify or Arctic Armor, because damage over time doesn't hit. Kinda obvious but doesn't hurt to mention.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
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raics wrote:
Except, of course, modifiers to damage taken that specify 'when hit', like Fortify or Arctic Armor, because damage over time doesn't hit. Kinda obvious but doesn't hurt to mention.

That's for Damage over Time, yes - Komachi was asking about secondary Damage :)
Ah, right, dunno what was I looking at, really.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.

◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]►
◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]►
Magma Orb: how does it work?

Is a crit rolled for the spell at cast? Or does every mob hit by an instance of damage get a crit roll? So it could not crit bounce 1 but then crit bounce 2?

What is the dps referring to? the damage in one touchdown? So if a monster gets hit by two bounces then the dps is doubled?

There's no overlap right? With the new jewels giving +2 projectiles, an enemy can't be hit by 3 balls per bounce, just one hit per bounce?

Are crits rng or entropy based?

Why is there such a huge fucking difference between 89% chance to hit and 92%+? 89% chance to hit feels more like 50%, but once you get over 90% it feels like over 90%. Same with crit chance, 10% crit chance seems like it would be able to proc EO but it rarely stays up. What gives?

Magma Orb seems to stun enemies a lot. Is that because of some special inherent part of it or is it because I 2-4 shot enemies?

How does knockback work? From which point of reference do enemies get knocked back? From centre of skill or from character? Is knockback for Magma Orb like crit? Is it rolled at start of cast or per damage instance? Is it per projectile or per bounce? Could I have the rightmost orb knockback on the first bounce and then the leftmost knockback on the second bounce?

Is it possible to make the distance magma orb travels between bounces shorter? Slower projectiles support or something else? If it becomes shorter, does that mean with the increasing AoE from Inevitability jewel that it would be possible to make enemies get hit by every bounce? If an enemy gets hit all 4 times would that be 4x listed dps damage?

I have a 5l with flame golem, ice nova, cwdt, curse on hit, temp chains. Neither my flame golem nor my ice nova make temp chains happen. Why is this?
Last edited by Jazriel#7080 on Mar 7, 2017, 5:15:48 AM
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Jazriel wrote:
Is a crit rolled for the spell at cast? Or does every mob hit by an instance of damage get a crit roll? So it could not crit bounce 1 but then crit bounce 2?

Same as always, Crit is rolled on activation, and is consistent for the entire cast.
Note that conditional modifiers can still modify the result of a Crit roll. For example, if one enemy is cursed with Assassin's Mark and the other is not, it's possible to Crit the Cursed target, but not-Crit the second target.

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Jazriel wrote:
What is the dps referring to? the damage in one touchdown? So if a monster gets hit by two bounces then the dps is doubled?

DPS display assumes one hit per cast.

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Jazriel wrote:
There's no overlap right? With the new jewels giving +2 projectiles, an enemy can't be hit by 3 balls per bounce, just one hit per bounce?

Each bounce can hit once, regardless of the amount of Projectiles.

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Jazriel wrote:
Are crits rng or entropy based?

RNG.

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Jazriel wrote:
Why is there such a huge fucking difference between 89% chance to hit and 92%+? 89% chance to hit feels more like 50%, but once you get over 90% it feels like over 90%. Same with crit chance, 10% crit chance seems like it would be able to proc EO but it rarely stays up. What gives?

First of all, Magma Orb is a Spell and doesn't use Chance to Hit.
As for Elemental Overload: due to Crits being a binary factor for the entire cast, you will need 10 casts to trigger Elemental Overload once, on average. If Crits rolled per Hit instead, you would only need 10 Hits to trigger, on average. To some extent, what you see is to be expected, really.

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Jazriel wrote:
Magma Orb seems to stun enemies a lot. Is that because of some special inherent part of it or is it because I 2-4 shot enemies?

Chance to Stun is based on Damage dealt relative to the target's Maximum Life, so yes, it's because you hit hard. Wiki article with numbers, if you're curious :)

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Jazriel wrote:
How does knockback work? From which point of reference do enemies get knocked back? From centre of skill or from character? Is knockback for Magma Orb like crit? Is it rolled at start of cast or per damage instance? Is it per projectile or per bounce? Could I have the rightmost orb knockback on the first bounce and then the leftmost knockback on the second bounce?

Knockback pushes enemies away from the source of the Skill, in this case your character.
On-Hit effects, including Knockback, are rolled on a per-Hit basis.

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Jazriel wrote:
Is it possible to make the distance magma orb travels between bounces shorter? Slower projectiles support or something else? If it becomes shorter, does that mean with the increasing AoE from Inevitability jewel that it would be possible to make enemies get hit by every bounce? If an enemy gets hit all 4 times would that be 4x listed dps damage?

I believe you can only affect the first bounce, but it should be pretty easy to see for yourself: just switch from Inc AoE to Conc Effect, and from Faster Projectiles to Slower Projectiles. If either modifier affects bounce distance, it'll be immediately obvious.

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Jazriel wrote:
I have a 5l with flame golem, ice nova, cwdt, curse on hit, temp chains. Neither my flame golem nor my ice nova make temp chains happen. Why is this?

Your Temporal Chains is supported by two Trigger Gems, disabling both. Level your TC to above your CwDT and it'll work for Ice Nova.

Proxies and Summons cannot meaningfully benefit from Curse on Hit. Flame Golem does get the modifier "apply linked Curses on Hit", but its Skills are not linked to any Curses - only the Skill that summons the Golem is linked to a Curse, and that doesn't Hit enemies.
I wasn't able to find any official statement about how Wild Strike works against single target. As far as I understand, first hit is done without any conversion, just base attack damage modifier and supports, then secondary effect is released. Now, several people claim that secondary effect doesn't hit enemy that received initial hit but I can't find any sensibly looking test, just laconic statements about this. Can I ask for some clarification about this?

(If that's the case then I really can't understand design behind this skill. I could understand lack of hit by secondary effect but initial hit should get full conversion as well, tags similar to how it is now but converted to match secondary effect. Otherwise this skill is really created in a way that will always feel like shooting yourself in a leg and fix to this is so easy and obvious.)
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Hipnotyzer wrote:
I wasn't able to find any official statement about how Wild Strike works against single target. As far as I understand, first hit is done without any conversion, just base attack damage modifier and supports, then secondary effect is released.


Nope, that's incorrect. Melee Hit includes full conversion.

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Now, several people claim that secondary effect doesn't hit enemy that received initial hit but I can't find any sensibly looking test, just laconic statements about this. Can I ask for some clarification about this?


Maces tend to have a low damage range, so you could test with a character that has no bonuses to melee, projectile, or area damage (such as a low-level Shadow). Dealing double damage to your initial target should be pretty noticeable if your variation is only 15%:


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(If that's the case then I really can't understand design behind this skill. I could understand lack of hit by secondary effect but initial hit should get full conversion as well, tags similar to how it is now but converted to match secondary effect. Otherwise this skill is really created in a way that will always feel like shooting yourself in a leg and fix to this is so easy and obvious.)


Well then, that's good, because melee hit includes full conversion just like you want it to.
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Thanks for your reply, it clarifies things for me. I see now that I misunderstood some things which led to my confusion - so thanks again for taking your time to write reply for my a bit silly question.

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