Path of Exile's December PvP Update

"

Iluvatar_gr wrote:

"

MosesXIII wrote:

Dear god, this is the most massive waste of GGG time and money I've ever seen. It really, truly, honestly makes me sad to see the game taken in this futile direction.

There is a reason PVP was popular in D2 and will never be popular in PoE. That reason is IMO one of PoE's greatest strengths: It is HARDER than D2 ever was. In D2 you could build the best PVP characters, and still take them through endgame content (minus Uber Trist, but like Atziri in PoE, Uber Trist could only be cleared by a specific set of builds). In PoE, you would run into clear speed issues at the very least, and impassable walls at the most.

Look at LLD -- In D2 LLD was the niche, a pauper style of PVP. You could GET expensive LLD gear, but the difference was much more negligible than endgame. Anyway, in PoE, LLD seems to be the more popular PVP. Why? Because it takes less time to make the character. Because you're not forced to try and hit endgame content with a gimped character.

Yes. There are diehards. They are posting in this thread. Who are they, though, really? My guess is that they're either A: The players who have to PVP in EVERY multiplayer game, B: The players who PVP'd in D2 and are blind to the differences between the two games or C: Players who are poor, and see LLD as something they can finally get into with their meager wealth.

Please, GGG. I know you've obviously committed already, but please stop working on this futile endeavor ASAP. As an alt art collector and skin buyer, I love the idea of new alt art items, but as a lover of this game I hate to see it receive massive updates that ultimately will go nowhere.

What on earth are you even talking about... Many people will OBVIOUSLY try the new leagues and will enjoy them.. Who cares if you can't do the game's content with a pvp character? It will be just another character anyway. You either get alternative gear or you just don't play him except for PvP. I do not care much for PvP in arpgs either but this doesn't mean I don't care for it to be good..It is funny that you mention that POE is not D2 but still you are thinking and reasoning based on D2s PvP dynamics. GGG is doing the right thing (as usual) and you are absolutely confused.

Unless GGG implements a PVP system where there are rewards for day to day PVP (not just race-styled seasons with time restricted events), then there is much less incentive to PVP than there is to join a new league. You can't log onto your PVP character and farm Dom, or maps, or anything, really. If GGG does that, though, that's even MORE time and effort that could be better spent on new content, balance, QoL shit, anything else.

As for comparing this game to D2, if you turn a blind eye to the influence D2 has had on both this game AND its players then that's on you. However we both know the facts: PoE was made by D2 players and largely for D2 players.

PVP will never succeed outside of the niche category in which it currently exists. Not in the long term, anyway. Maybe there's a spike in popularity with the novelty of the first few tournaments, but it will absolutely fail in the end.

It seems a lot of people are over estimating the cost to have fun in HLD. You don't need to have mirrored gear to compete. In fact most people could take their high level mapper, switch a couple items and gem set ups and whoop some ass. And for the record high level duel isn't that imbalanced!! There are a few mechanics that are over powered. Puncture's bleed for example. It is not the bleed itself, but the fact there is only one way to remove it:flasks. GGG seems to have hinted at a unique with "cannot bleed" or something along those lines and it shows they see that this mechanic needs more ways to counter. That's one of the coolest parts about HLD, is everything has a counter and weakness. I think people get one hit killed and just say "this isn't balanced". When they should instead be asking themselves how did I die? What type of damage killed me? How can I counter it? For example i see newer high level duel players think they can be -60 chaos resist and not get one shotted. They get owned in a split second by any chaos damage and then say "this is not balanced at all", when in fact it is their build that is not balanced. I am not saying high level duel is perfect at the moment, but they are obviously addressing the main issues, and it's very fun in its currents state if you take the time to acquire the PvP knowledge needed. I would prefer an educated pvper on my team over a filthy rich mirrored mapper anyday of the week. Obviously if you are rich in currency you will have more options in terms of your build, but that doesn't mean you will win. I would say 10 exalts is about the amount of currency you would need to build a High Level dueler from scratch, and I would recommend being at least level 80.

TLDR:
1.)The imbalance in HLD is drastically over estimated.
2.) All builds have a counter.
3.)Knowledge is greater than mirrors.

"

MosesXIII wrote:

PVP will never succeed outside of the niche category in which it currently exists. Not in the long term, anyway. Maybe there's a spike in popularity with the novelty of the first few tournaments, but it will absolutely fail in the end.

And why the damn f&$%&# you don't want GGG to add this in to seasons like races?

IT IS a niche category like seasons are so i hope more people will join with PvP seasons!

Did you watch greendude's latest 3v3 pvp LLD? there were ONLY 4 teams!!! 12 people in the whole PoE LLD PVP community...do you realize that?

So right now with that move GGG does i really hope that LLD's / PvP's would be more and more so we have some variety with players to play.

It's good for the game to have multiple gameplays ... PoE is not to do Atziri only.. lol

There are a lot of core game issues and features I would rather see implemented first (foremost, an auction house). Too many irons in the fire, jmo.

"

GreenDude wrote:

"

Bhai wrote:

I`m not going to pretend I know anything about your knowledge of HLD, although your overt lack participation in HLD does place some significant limit on it. But things like you not uploading all of the HLD tournament videos when you promised to weeks (almost a month?) ago indicates a significant bias that I'm not particularly comfortable with guiding PvP related decisions.

You choose not to assume my HLD knowledge but you assumed everything about why the vods are not online.

You think I'm assuming? Last time I checked, renigging on a promise you made to the HLD community is reasonable grounds for thinking that you don't care about HLD - especially in conjunction with some of the other shit you've said about HLD. I'll just leave this here and let the people decide:

"

GreenDude wrote:

Now you guys understand why I didn't want to stream it, shoutcast it and get prizes for it (the HLD tourney). All i hear is complaining from HLDers and the worse is when we say "well why dont you come to LLD" they are like "oh no there is not enough diversity"

lol so you complain all day about HLD but diversity makes LLD broken to you?

You guys make me laugh :P

Anyway a little update on HLD: ill have all the vods uploaded before the LLD tourney next weekend i promise.

"

Kalidor wrote:

"

MosesXIII wrote:

PVP will never succeed outside of the niche category in which it currently exists. Not in the long term, anyway. Maybe there's a spike in popularity with the novelty of the first few tournaments, but it will absolutely fail in the end.

And why the damn f&$%&# you don't want GGG to add this in to seasons like races?

IT IS a niche category like seasons are so i hope more people will join with PvP seasons!

Did you watch greendude's latest 3v3 pvp LLD? there were ONLY 4 teams!!! 12 people in the whole PoE LLD PVP community...do you realize that?

So right now with that move GGG does i really hope that LLD's / PvP's would be more and more so we have some variety with players to play.

It's good for the game to have multiple gameplays ... PoE is not to do Atziri only.. lol

There were only 4 teams because PVP is not a good fit for this game. The reason people don't PVP is because PVP does not go well with this game. How many different ways do I have to say it?

Because you cannot play the actual, rewarding part of the game with a character built for PVP, PVP will never be popular. Even the adding of race-style seasons will NOT be enough. You may expand the PVP crowd by a considerable amount in the short term, but in the long term people will go back to their actually rewarding characters (PVM characters) and forget about PVP.

The LACK OF REWARD from day to day PVP (unless you implement some sort of system like I believe WoW has) combined with the fact that PVP CHARACTERS ARE ALSO USELESS IN ANY AREA WITH ACTUAL REWARD makes PVP a terrible fit for this game.

Of course it's good to have multiple options for gameplay. Even now, Atziri is not the only endgame. There's maps, Dom runs, etc. and I would be ECSTATIC to have MORE CONTENT. More content like the people currently working on PVP could be working on instead of a doomed-to-failure system in a game where PVP does not fit.

"

MosesXIII wrote:

"

Kalidor wrote:

"

MosesXIII wrote:

PVP will never succeed outside of the niche category in which it currently exists. Not in the long term, anyway. Maybe there's a spike in popularity with the novelty of the first few tournaments, but it will absolutely fail in the end.

And why the damn f&$%&# you don't want GGG to add this in to seasons like races?

IT IS a niche category like seasons are so i hope more people will join with PvP seasons!

Did you watch greendude's latest 3v3 pvp LLD? there were ONLY 4 teams!!! 12 people in the whole PoE LLD PVP community...do you realize that?

So right now with that move GGG does i really hope that LLD's / PvP's would be more and more so we have some variety with players to play.

It's good for the game to have multiple gameplays ... PoE is not to do Atziri only.. lol

There were only 4 teams because PVP is not a good fit for this game. The reason people don't PVP is because PVP does not go well with this game. How many different ways do I have to say it?

Because you cannot play the actual, rewarding part of the game with a character built for PVP, PVP will never be popular. Even the adding of race-style seasons will NOT be enough. You may expand the PVP crowd by a considerable amount in the short term, but in the long term people will go back to their actually rewarding characters (PVM characters) and forget about PVP.

The LACK OF REWARD from day to day PVP (unless you implement some sort of system like I believe WoW has) combined with the fact that PVP CHARACTERS ARE ALSO USELESS IN ANY AREA WITH ACTUAL REWARD makes PVP a terrible fit for this game.

Of course it's good to have multiple options for gameplay. Even now, Atziri is not the only endgame. There's maps, Dom runs, etc. and I would be ECSTATIC to have MORE CONTENT. More content like the people currently working on PVP could be working on instead of a doomed-to-failure system in a game where PVP does not fit.

So in other words you say that you want the game to have builds that can do PVP AND PVE?

This would be a stupid idea...then all would do 2-3 builds and be able to do end game AND PvP everyone!

give me a break...

Yeah i love this! finally pvp! don't forget to ban temp chains from tournaments ! :D big up!

"

... and the 1.4.0 Act Four expansion we'll be releasing early next year.

Kreygasm

"

Kalidor wrote:

"

MosesXIII wrote:

"

Kalidor wrote:

And why the damn f&$%&# you don't want GGG to add this in to seasons like races?

IT IS a niche category like seasons are so i hope more people will join with PvP seasons!

Did you watch greendude's latest 3v3 pvp LLD? there were ONLY 4 teams!!! 12 people in the whole PoE LLD PVP community...do you realize that?

So right now with that move GGG does i really hope that LLD's / PvP's would be more and more so we have some variety with players to play.

It's good for the game to have multiple gameplays ... PoE is not to do Atziri only.. lol

There were only 4 teams because PVP is not a good fit for this game. The reason people don't PVP is because PVP does not go well with this game. How many different ways do I have to say it?

Because you cannot play the actual, rewarding part of the game with a character built for PVP, PVP will never be popular. Even the adding of race-style seasons will NOT be enough. You may expand the PVP crowd by a considerable amount in the short term, but in the long term people will go back to their actually rewarding characters (PVM characters) and forget about PVP.

The LACK OF REWARD from day to day PVP (unless you implement some sort of system like I believe WoW has) combined with the fact that PVP CHARACTERS ARE ALSO USELESS IN ANY AREA WITH ACTUAL REWARD makes PVP a terrible fit for this game.

Of course it's good to have multiple options for gameplay. Even now, Atziri is not the only endgame. There's maps, Dom runs, etc. and I would be ECSTATIC to have MORE CONTENT. More content like the people currently working on PVP could be working on instead of a doomed-to-failure system in a game where PVP does not fit.

So in other words you say that you want the game to have builds that can do PVP AND PVE?

This would be a stupid idea...then all would do 2-3 builds and be able to do end game AND PvP everyone!

give me a break...

No, I don't WANT that. I'm saying D2 HAD that, and that's WHY PVP was so popular in that game. I think this game is BETTER for having a greater challenge than D2 did, but as an unfortunate consequence, PVP becomes a timesink with no real reward here. Even seasons won't bring about a large population of dedicated PVPers -- they will mostly be in it for the prizes, then leave PVP alone altogether between seasons.

I'm repeating myself here, but you could take a PVP build in Diablo II and still run Baal all day if you really wanted to. You could build FOR the competitive aspect of PVP and still have a competent character. This is what attracted many people, myself included, to PVP. Since PVP had no real reward, building a PVP character would ultimately be a waste of time, effort and currency UNLESS it could also be used to farm.