So i did the first Uber atziri as 2h melee[recorded it], my feedback.

gj bro

Number 1 friends NA!

Well done, also. Killing UA with a 2H build is an achievement for sure.

"

VictorDoom wrote:

I agree a buff to the base 2h items would be a good start, in damage and in base crit, with a bunch of crit chacne nodes for 2h weapons around, to at least make 2h weapon users more varied, not all of them speccing into RT if theyre not using a staff.


It makes sense for 2h weapons to attack slower, but why do they have to have a low base crit i dont know. I think it would be a great approach to buff the base crit of 2h weapons, add some crit nodes around for 2h, not too many but enough to get you to 30-40% crit chance with a good weapon and decent gear, this would help a lot in terms of dps.

And what would make sense when it comes to crits is that 2h weapons should confer higher base crit multiplier since it would make sense, you dont crit as often as with daggers, but when you do you should do massive damage since youre using a weapon 5 times larger than a dagger.

I don't think Critchance should be something for 2h in general. It should be a possibility but not the real deal. The issue is that you would have to take a lot of Accuracy to make it worthwhile, because you have neither a lot of Dex, nor good Accuracy-Nodes on the left side. It might be something for 2h-swords who are more aligned with dex then a mace is.

However I would actually go the other way around and even reduce the base-crit of maces and further increase their base damage. So a Mace basically is a weapon you swing... and if it hits it hits. I can't really imagine how a critical hit with a giant 2h-mace would even look like. It hits you thats it, seems always critical. A dagger could hit critical parts, but a mace against the head always hurts. So for a mace crits shouldn't be the thing. They should be slow and incredible strong weapons.

So my idea with 2h-weapons would be this:

Staves could stay as they are. Maybe making them more on the slower end with a bit higher base-damage.

Maces are no-crit high constant damage-machines, with also a rather slow speed.

Axes are weapons with devastating critical strikes

Swords are quicker than staves and also aligned to critical strikes.

So in short:

Staves: Slow, Crit
Maces: Slow, High Base Damage, Low Crit
Axes: Slow, Crit-Mult
Swords: Fast, Crit

There could even be variations of course. A Mace with regular crit and a much lower base-damage maybe (likely one of the faster ones).

However I still feel that 2handers would need some sort of damage-effectiveness to also scale better with outside damage-sources (like Auras), since they are always slower then 1-handed weapons (because they are heavy).

Also 2handed nodes should maybe give a bit of Life. A Character working with a 2h-Weapon likely has a rather good constitution since he basically smashs a tree-log against an enemies head. This could result in some Life-Buffs for 2h-nodes.

Because in my opinion 2h-builds should be defined by having a huge amount of Life. Just giving them the same Avoidance Mechanics like 1h-weapons have would be kinda odd and thats already an area covered by staves.

So the thing is for 2handers to be worthwhile it needs several changes, which are not all only target on 2-handers alone:

1. Giving 2handers some defensive options (in my opinion by improving their life-pool, since this seems to be a good signature stat for them)
2. Improving their nodes, exspecially giving more options for Dex/Crit-Oriented builds on the right part of the tree
3. Improving the base-stats on 2-handed weapons
4. Changing the way Slower weapons gain benefits from flat-damage sources to bring them more in line with quick weapons (thats not only a 2hander issue).
5. Change mob-defenses to give them more then just resistances, but also stats like very different values in armor and evasion, to make slower weapons better against some of them and screw crit-oriented builds with high evasion enemies

What I think 2handers need, discounting a dedicated passive, is items for the off-hand slot.

Weapon Straps that can roll resists, life, attack speed, weapon range, accuracy, global crit chance/multiplier etc. Basically quivers for 2hand.

Make 7 bases with the following implicits:

+X% to maximum Fire Resistance
+X% to maximum Cold Resistance
+X% to maximum Lightning Resistance
Gain Y% of Melee Physical Damage as Extra Fire Damage
Gain Y% of Melee Physical Damage as Extra Cold Damage
Gain Y% of Melee Physical Damage as Extra Lightning Damage
+Z% to Physical Resistance

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

ancalagon3000 wrote:

"

VictorDoom wrote:

GGG assured me that their testers did it with no legacy gear and no insane gear/acuities with 2h characters

lol'd

/dev_console
/godMode(true)

Something like that. Chris also claimed that the Descent testers easily got to level 26 when in reality that level has been reached only twice after release.
You shouldn't believe any of their claims.

"

bb650427 wrote:

gj bro

Would have been impossible without that staff you made man!

"

Daresso wrote:

Spoiler

"

Petrov, he lent me his legacy kaoms
Mouze, gave me loads of his standard gear and currency
Yeph, gear, currency and death rush
Turtleken, lending me his high roll steps
Zenthazar and Bladehawk256 for giving me roughly 100-150 exalts in currency and items
Soundee, lots and lots of gear
Null03, lots of gear and some currency
Prianhaz, helped me with gear
Iski, loads of advice on the fight and giving me mortal bits

If i forget anyone, i am very sorry, i just woke up

Number 1 friends NA!

i think everyone in that list is from EU, including me lol

"

Emphasy wrote:

I don't think Critchance should be something for 2h in general. It should be a possibility but not the real deal. The issue is that you would have to take a lot of Accuracy to make it worthwhile, because you have neither a lot of Dex, nor good Accuracy-Nodes on the left side. It might be something for 2h-swords who are more aligned with dex then a mace is.



However I would actually go the other way around and even reduce the base-crit of maces and further increase their base damage. So a Mace basically is a weapon you swing... and if it hits it hits. I can't really imagine how a critical hit with a giant 2h-mace would even look like. It hits you thats it, seems always critical. A dagger could hit critical parts, but a mace against the head always hurts. So for a mace crits shouldn't be the thing. They should be slow and incredible strong weapons.

Well there are extremely good accuracy nodes, with my mapping char i have only roughly 80 dex from tree but the templar accuracy nodes plus the marauder accuracy nodes, with just ~250 acc on amulet, i am at 85% chance to hit, i think that is very good.
I agree that it makes sense for 2h swords to have higher crit since they also roll implicit accuracy.

But i do agree that it makes sense for maces to not crit and do big damage all of the time.

"

Emphasy wrote:

So my idea with 2h-weapons would be this:

Staves could stay as they are. Maybe making them more on the slower end with a bit higher base-damage.

Maces are no-crit high constant damage-machines, with also a rather slow speed.

Axes are weapons with devastating critical strikes

Swords are quicker than staves and also aligned to critical strikes.

So in short:

Staves: Slow, Crit
Maces: Slow, High Base Damage, Low Crit
Axes: Slow, Crit-Mult
Swords: Fast, Crit

There could even be variations of course. A Mace with regular crit and a much lower base-damage maybe (likely one of the faster ones).

However I still feel that 2handers would need some sort of damage-effectiveness to also scale better with outside damage-sources (like Auras), since they are always slower then 1-handed weapons (because they are heavy).

Also 2handed nodes should maybe give a bit of Life. A Character working with a 2h-Weapon likely has a rather good constitution since he basically smashs a tree-log against an enemies head. This could result in some Life-Buffs for 2h-nodes.

Because in my opinion 2h-builds should be defined by having a huge amount of Life. Just giving them the same Avoidance Mechanics like 1h-weapons have would be kinda odd and thats already an area covered by staves.

So the thing is for 2handers to be worthwhile it needs several changes, which are not all only target on 2-handers alone:

1. Giving 2handers some defensive options (in my opinion by improving their life-pool, since this seems to be a good signature stat for them)
2. Improving their nodes, exspecially giving more options for Dex/Crit-Oriented builds on the right part of the tree
3. Improving the base-stats on 2-handed weapons
4. Changing the way Slower weapons gain benefits from flat-damage sources to bring them more in line with quick weapons (thats not only a 2hander issue).
5. Change mob-defenses to give them more then just resistances, but also stats like very different values in armor and evasion, to make slower weapons better against some of them and screw crit-oriented builds with high evasion enemies

I agree with all of this, the defense options are needed, the crit is needed for certain weapons and the ones that shouldnt have high crit should do big damage, and i like the ideas for each weapon type being special in its own way.

"

Emphasy wrote:

I don't think Critchance should be something for 2h in general. It should be a possibility but not the real deal. The issue is that you would have to take a lot of Accuracy to make it worthwhile, because you have neither a lot of Dex, nor good Accuracy-Nodes on the left side. It might be something for 2h-swords who are more aligned with dex then a mace is.

Accuracy is actually REALLY easy on swords.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

ancalagon3000 wrote:

"

VictorDoom wrote:

GGG assured me that their testers did it with no legacy gear and no insane gear/acuities with 2h characters

lol'd

/dev_console
/godMode(true)

I doubt it. I beleive them, but they had infine tries, and obvisouly played her with zero desync or lag. It is possible to manually dodge every single of her attacks, except the spear, which can be countered. There is a video of guy doing her and not getting hit even once(around 4-5K HP), but he had ondar's guile for the spear throwing.

As for 2 handed weapons, i beleive if they had a built in melee splash, without the penalties, it would be a good enough reason to use them.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

ancalagon3000 wrote:

"

VictorDoom wrote:

GGG assured me that their testers did it with no legacy gear and no insane gear/acuities with 2h characters

lol'd

/dev_console
/godMode(true)

hey johnny! missed you XD

yeah something like that lol, I mean I lol'd at the 'GGG tested' part in general, but then it gets funnier.