So i did the first Uber atziri as 2h melee[recorded it], my feedback.

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VictorDoom wrote:

And atziri is just insane, if i dont use a fire flask the flameblast 1 shots me with almost 9k life, the spears hit for around 3-4k, you need very high movement speed and pretty much need spelldodge.

GGG'a idea of making a hard fight is too scale dmg to insane amounts, doubt this ever changes and it's a crying shame because you don't need to do that to make a fight hard...id much rather see more going on game mechanic wise with lesser dmg output per source. Like multiple boss phases, adds, aoe, things that must be avoided after a brief warning or it's a 1-shot, etc...there is so many possibles without taking the easy/annoying route by stacking dmg output and forcing everyone to go above and beyond with their defenses and health pool!

But you also have to make things avoidable, which they clearly didn't take into account with flameblast! Too much of the floor is covered at any given time imo! I would of done things differently, but aye its their game!

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BisuProbe wrote:

the usual counterargument is "but they will learn the tricks of the attacks and once everyone knows it the fight becomes trivial eg. vaal". but not everyone can meet insane gearchecks.

I played WoW for 6 years! Now I realize this game is in no way shape or form a MMO and to compair the 2 is like comparing apples to oranges, i'm only using it as an example of game mechanics because most boss fight in WoW raiding has what im talking about! Which is complex mechanic's you must either avoid or do to accomplish whats at hand! You have a set window to remove yourself from harms way or suffer death, you sometimes have a set window to take out adds, stay out of fire, etc!

NO matter how many video's or instructions there are available to an individual there is always the select few that screw up, either by accident or just because they lack the skill! Let the individual be the reason for failure, not insane dmg scaling!

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justinmm1988 wrote:

I played WoW for 6 years! Now I realize this game is in no way shape or form a MMO and to compair the 2 is like comparing apples to oranges, i'm only using it as an example of game mechanics because most boss fight in WoW raiding has what im talking about! Which is complex mechanic's you must either avoid or do to accomplish whats at hand! You have a set window to remove yourself from harms way or suffer death, you sometimes have a set window to take out adds, stay out of fire, etc!

NO matter how many video's or instructions there are available to an individual there is always the select few that screw up, either by accident or just because they lack the skill! Let the individual be the reason for failure, not insane dmg scaling!

That's just a numbers game though, especially when your gear is just good enough to manage the fight. If only one or two of 25 people screw up, you're done. That's why 10 man raids were so easy, much less potential for failure. WoW had basically no complex mechanics, it was almost always move out of the fire, kite stuff and focus the correct target. But when you have 25 people who have to execute everything perfectly, the potential for failure is quite large, even with simple mechanics.

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BisuProbe wrote:

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justinmm1988 wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

And atziri is just insane, if i dont use a fire flask the flameblast 1 shots me with almost 9k life, the spears hit for around 3-4k, you need very high movement speed and pretty much need spelldodge.

GGG'a idea of making a hard fight is too scale dmg to insane amounts, doubt this ever changes and it's a crying shame because you don't need to do that to make a fight hard...id much rather see more going on game mechanic wise with lesser dmg output per source. Like multiple boss phases, adds, aoe, things that must be avoided after a brief warning or it's a 1-shot, etc...there is so many possibles without taking the easy/annoying route by stacking dmg output and forcing everyone to go above and beyond with their defenses and health pool!

But you also have to make things avoidable, which they clearly didn't take into account with flameblast! Too much of the floor is covered at any given time imo! I would of done things differently, but aye its their game!

the usual counterargument is "but they will learn the tricks of the attacks and once everyone knows it the fight becomes trivial eg. vaal". but not everyone can meet insane gearchecks.

i also support buffing 2h by giving them much larger base crit multipliers/more crit multipliers nodes for 2H. its the essence of 2H after all, strong heavy damage. its retarded just 1 puny dagger can out dps 2H cos muh crit.

Why not have something similar to Diablo 2's Crushing Blow mechanics on two-handers? That is, chance to just lop off a set percentage of the boss's HP? Completely useless for mobs that you blow up in two hits, but definitely something to think about for the big enemies, where the damage of a mighty two-hander might excel in.

Also, regarding the counterargument "they will learn the tricks of the attacks and once everyone knows it the fight becomes trivial":

That's basically admitting that the fight in and of itself is already trivial, that it's simply gated before you can get there, both by the pieces you need just to get to it (mortal series, which in and of themselves need god knows how many repetitions of the sacrifice series, which need god knows how many midnights), and if you're going for the rarest of the drops (god gloves), well, once again, no mechanical difficulty so much as "gated by tediousness".

It's honestly awful design IMO. If your content is so trivial that it's far more difficult to get to the puzzle than to solve it, you've done a poor job.

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Xavderion wrote:

That's just a numbers game though, especially when your gear is just good enough to manage the fight. If only one or two of 25 people screw up, you're done. That's why 10 man raids were so easy, much less potential for failure. WoW had basically no complex mechanics, it was almost always move out of the fire, kite stuff and focus the correct target. But when you have 25 people who have to execute everything perfectly, the potential for failure is quite large, even with simple mechanics.

I will agree with you on the newer stuff, lich king and up things got way to easy! Not back in vanilla and bc however, there were some great fights back then!

But still, I haven't seen anything close to what im talking about in this game in terms of game mechanics! It's just straight dmg scaling. However I like what they did with Merveil, that's closer to what im talking about than anything! When they changed her I could no longer just leap slam in an nuke! I still can Brutus though!

strongly disagree about Merveil, Justin.

as the boss of Act 1 (Normal), she is currently far too much for a new player to handle.
and when I fought her in that tiny boss room in Necropolis, it wasn't as much dodging as it was "oh god can't see shit! just keep shooting to where she should be, and pray my gear, flasks and evasion can withstand all the shit that's going on on the screen, because there's not a single spot left I can move to without taking any damage".

now combine that with GGG's notorious graphical optimization, plus a sprinkle of desync's "you're not standing where you think you are standing" - and you get one heck of a "break keyboard in rage" scenario.

I actually think Shock And Horror is a better boss fight design than Merveil, right now.
heck, Shock and Horror could be a great boss if that Death Ray wasn't auto-hit go-hide-behind-a-pillar-before-you-die, and instead something like Diablo's river of flame attack from D2.

Brutus? same.
I don't do Dungeon maps any more. when that circle of spikes comes out with absolutely no warning and hits you for THAT MUCH damage, desync making you never fully trust what your eyes are seeing, and graphics-lag from all those new extra special effects, allowing him to gain ground on you faster than you can say "oh shit he's right here instead of over there!" - Dungeon has now become the new Orchard. an auto-vendor map.
always liked Kole better, anyway.

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VictorDoom wrote:

GGG assured me that their testers did it with no legacy gear and no insane gear/acuities with 2h characters

lol'd

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

GGG assured me that their testers did it with no legacy gear and no insane gear/acuities with 2h characters

lol'd

/dev_console
/godMode(true)

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johnKeys wrote:

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ancalagon3000 wrote:

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VictorDoom wrote:

GGG assured me that their testers did it with no legacy gear and no insane gear/acuities with 2h characters

lol'd

/dev_console
/godMode(true)

lol was just going to post something similar, you beat me to it.