A Closer Look at the New Passive Tree!

So a while ago Chris revealed the Forsaken Masters expansion, along with this tiny teaser image of the new passive tree.



And what a teaser it was; I could almost see what the nodes were. For someone like me who loves to theorycraft builds, this is simply irresistible. I must know what the nodes are in this image, because I don't think I can wait three more weeks.

It's times like these when it would be nice to have one of those notorious CSI computers that can enhance an image so much that they can identify suspects from reflections in someone's eye. Unfortunately, that's just Hollywood magic, and all that happens when I zoom-in is this:


Well, that didn't help much; however, I've still been able to identify most of them via process of elimination and by making educated guesses. This is of course exactly what I've been doing for the last day or two, and now I'd like to share my work with everyone. I think I have about 95% of the nodes figured out. Naturally, some of my guesses are going to be wrong (in fact, know some of them are wrong), but that is to be expected.

Below you'll see the annotated image I've been working on. All keystones (red) and notables (yellow) have been labeled, along with some interesting regular (green) nodes. And for everyone's convenience, I spent waaay too much time replacing the icons I identified with their higher resolution versions. The nodes that are still blurry are the ones I still can't figure out.




I'd like for this thread to become a discussion about the new passive tree changes. You may have noticed that several notable nodes have gone missing. They could have been removed, or just moved somewhere else. Also notice that Hex Master and Whispers of Doom are no longer keystones.


Missing Nodes
Minion Instability (Keystone)
Purity of Flesh
Serpent Stance
Bullying
Clear Mind
Bloodthirst
From the Shadows
Falcon Claws
Void Barrier
Blinding Speed
King of the Hill

"

Chris wrote:

Passive Tree Changes
We've redesigned some large portions of the Passive Skill Tree - primarily the Witch and Shadow starting areas and the areas surrounding the Witch, Shadow and Ranger.

The Shadow area now has a physical and an elemental section (rather than melee vs. spellcaster). This means that you don't need to decide on the attack vs. spell choice until much later in your character's development.

Groups of elemental and weapon passives for the Witch, Shadow and Ranger have been improved so that they're more impactful and on more desirable routes.

One design goal was that if a new player heads for a large cluster of themed passives that it would provide a solid backbone for that build. There are various choices on the way that allow them to support this build. Previously, one of the largest clusters was the curses cluster. Many Witches headed directly for this, which often resulted in a unfocused build.

We have added a notable passive to every passive group outside of starting areas.

You will be granted a one-time full passive respec with the 1.2.0 patch. If your tree was affected by the changes, it'll be automatically reset.

There are plenty of other tree changes that we haven't described yet. We're still iterating on the tree and making more changes. We'll be releasing more information about the tree's new layout closer to release.

Skill Balance and Mana Costs
We've rebalanced many skills in 1.2.0. Some of the less-frequently used skills have received power buffs. Almost all skills have dropped in mana cost.

"

Chris wrote:

"

S_Guy wrote:

Looked a little bit closer on that new skill tree image.
I don't see that many lfie nodes or some life nodes up there between Witch and Shadow are missing.
As Shadow already had a life node problem, I'm a little bit concerned and hope Shadow/Ranger area got more life nodes :/

What if I told you that there's more life per level now so there's less need to pick up so many life nodes in the tree?

Well, what do you think about the changes now that you can see the nodes?

"

Meridin wrote:

[...] And for everyone's convenience, I spent waaay too much time replacing the icons I identified with their higher resolution versions. [...]

I'd say that was time well spent. ;)

From what we can see now, the new tree mostly looks nice. They removed some of the annoying things (like the mana only available after going through the Power Charge above Witch start) and grouped similiar nodes better with extra noteables, making it more appealing to travel to a certain position. I'm a bit worried about the life change, hope the numbers are thought through well enough. Oh, and apparently it's still unconvenient to go from Witch start towards Templar. :(

Still time for lots of changes I guess, they seem to change the tree until the very last minute before it's released.

"

DirkAustin wrote:

I bet thats not even final.

Well of course it's not, and from the looks of it, they still have placeholder images for some of the new notables (most of the ones I can't identify seem nearly identical).

It succeeded in doing exactly what they wanted. It wasted an hour or so of your time and you enjoyed it. No game company could want more.

"

DirkAustin wrote:

I bet thats not even final.

As for the whole analysis thing, I know there were some others on reddit doing some sleuthing similar to this, but nice to see you taking a crack at it. Some comments from the browsing I did:

1. Little concerned about the Witch starting area given that if you want to go with life you're going to have to waste what looks like at least one node on ES. Energy Shield isn't exactly the easiest thing to start off or level with early on, but maybe GGG made some other changes that haven't announced yet to make ES a bit more viable for leveling?

2. Not really too surprised, but it seems they axed some of the crit nodes specifically for daggers, and given how potent that particular weapon is compared to others...it was to be expected.

3. Static Blows got flipped around a bit it seems and it's now closer to the Shadow area, which I can see making sense given that there's already a node in the starting area that gives 5% shock chance. Makes it easier to get them both in that regard, though like you I wonder if that red node in the circle is merely lightning resist, or perhaps something else? LR seems kinda not worth it, but if ya gotta fill the cluster in with something, then that works.

4. Inner Force getting moved closer to the Scion starting area will be interesting...that's already changed one of my current builds in terms of pathing around in the tree's current form. Also, do wonder what that bigger node near the life/mana hybrid nodes are...hopefully something worth taking. You did mention the new energy shield/something notable that seems to replace the 12% ES node in the ES circle. That seems to match up with the Evasion notable and makes me wonder if the 10% life is going to get changed to a notable as well to even things out?

5. The Written in Blood life notable is now connected to hybrid life/mana nodes, which means that unless WiB has been changed then that cluster will have a net loss of about 6% life total. Not a whole lot, and if what Chris says about us needing to take less life nodes to get the same effect with the base life changes...could work out well.

6. Though we can't see it all, it appears that the Rune Cleaver and Galvanic Hammer notables are now shifted over further into the Templar region instead of bordering the Templar/Witch zones. Might make it easier and more worthwhile for those speccing into Axes or Maces to pick those clusters up, though at the same time it makes me wonder if that means they aren't going to be 'gated' by anything else leading into them like the old Strength and Agility notables from before.

7. Interested to see what the starter nodes on the physical side of the Shadow tree are going to be. I would hope they aren't going to be melee nodes since those would be wasted if you wanted to trek down the projectile nodes as a bow/wand user, or whatever. Thinking they may just be generic physical damage nodes that work on anything. Glad to see that the life nodes are a bit more uniform in the starting area and like you I am curious as to whether that new notable by the outer life cluster is indeed Life Leech, or something else. LL would make the most sense given that it's right across from Mana Leech, and I think the passive tree overall could do with a few more LL and ML nodes so you're not so slaved into the gems.

8. Obviously not shown, but with all the changes to the Shadow tree (and I think GGG said something about this), I am very interested to see how the area between Shadow and Ranger is going to be changed up, Hopefully a bit more streamlined and easier to get around than it currently is now.

9. I have to say, I was very surprised to see the Influence aura cluster still hanging around...I was convinced that cluster and maybe one other was going to get axed given that GGG said they were changing auras around. However, perhaps it won't be via the tree but other ways outside of it and they are going to leave all the aura nodes intact...definitely interested to see where that will lead.

You're wasting your time. You're analyzing a 1.2.0 tree with 1.1.5 mechanics. More is changing than simply the tree. No harm is done, and it looks like you're enjoying the time spent, but you've no basis to understand the consequences of your hypotheses.

The only issue with daggers is that ST can use them.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

You're wasting your time. You're analyzing a 1.2.0 tree with 1.1.5 mechanics. More is changing than simply the tree. No harm is done, and it looks like you're enjoying the time spent, but you've no basis to understand the consequences of your hypotheses.

I am analyzing a tree with what I can visibly see in terms of changes that have been done to it, and most of my observations have little to do with these so called '1.1.5' mechanics as you so hastily put them. I would question that given the tone of your post you're trying to either subtly insult me and others like the OP and trying to claim some superior position because you somehow 'understand' that this is a 'waste of time'. Yet, when we actually sit down and look at it, the only one that has wasted their time here is you, and also made yourself look more foolish than you usually do with most of your posts on this forum.

I have made very little so called 'hypotheses' and have instead made only observations based on the data that I have been given and have heard from the developers...head developer Chris Wilson. The only things that could even remotely be seen as 'hypotheses' would be things like: my concerns about the ES nodes at the Witch starting area, the Written in Blood comment, potential for a new LL node, and some of the crit dagger nodes being removed. But yet again, most of those are based solely off of the visual data given by GGG in this screenshot and the only ones that could be even closely made to be a 'hypothesis' is the ES node concerns I have, AND EVEN THEN I clearly acknowledged that GGG might very well be making changes to make leveling with ES more attractive than it currently is.

In fact, in all of those supposed 'hypotheses' I have said that it is very likely that other changes are being made along with just the visual ones to the tree, and mechanics that GGG hasn't yet mentioned, or they have but haven't gone into greater detail because there might be more to them as part of the bigger picture. So with all of that said, I can only conclude that you are making these posts to not only waste your own time, but to try and make yourself sound superior and snarky to puff up your own ego, or some other form of self-worth that I may not be in-tune with on your end. Sadly, in the end, it has only succeeded in (once again) wasting your time and making yourself look more foolish than normal and that you have rather poor comprehension in terms of reading functionality and skills.

Not at all... I'm just posting. When asked about life nodes, Chris said "What if I was to tell you that you're going to get more life per level?", or something to that effect.

That says to me that no matter what we conclude based on looking at that image, there are effects not shown to explain changes that we see. So there's really no point in basing anything on what we see yet.

Wasting time is not a bad pursuit. We all waste time. You should just be clear that what you're doing isn't going to mean much.

I see no reason to become defensive and insulting. My reading comprehension is fine... thanks for your concern.