Snapshotting

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Bada_Bing wrote:

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Sneakypaw wrote:

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Bada_Bing wrote:

While i'm ok with removing snapshotting mechanics i think GGG overreaches by also removing trap and mine support. Without those gems one can hardly come up with a generic gem setup for spectres as only minion life + damage fits all spectre types. One is therefore forced to socket a specific gem setup for a specific spectre type (for example using concentrated effect for BMs or GMP for titty bitches). The unwanted effect is that, by removing snapshotting and making a 5L generic gem setup unavailable, one has to leave a map once one spectre dies and revisit a place where that spectre type is available: Once commited to a BM setup with conc.effect for example, desecreate becomes useless in a BM free map.
Both "nerfs" combined won't lead to a "better game" as Mark is hoping, but will make summoner gameplay even more tedious.

The minions will still benefit from the X% more damage. Just not from the Mine and Trap Passives on the tree or from gear.

If i understand Mark_GGG right, that won't be the case:

"There's some good feedback in your post that I'm sure some of the balance team will take into consideration, but I'd like to address this bit here and now. It's nothing to do with snapshotting specifically, so isn't part of this change, but 1.2.0 will also be changing "mine damage", "trap damage" and "totem damage" to explicitly mean damage dealt directly by a trap, totem or mine.
This means that if you place a mine that throws a trap that shoots a fireball, the fireball came from a trap and gets trap damage modifiers, but not mine damage modifiers. It came from the trap, not the mine.
Similarly, If you throw a trap or place a mine that summons a minion, and that minion uses an attack (or spell), then that attack or spell didn't come from a trap or mine and is not "trap damage" or "mine damage" so will not be affected by modifiers to either.

Just as with the snapshotting change, the balance team will also be keeping this change in mind when re-examining minions for 1.2.0."

That would render trap/mine as minion support completly useless.

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Malone wrote:

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tmaciak wrote:

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Malone wrote:

No buffs are necessary. Summoner is really powerfull without snapshot already.

Unfortunately, no, they are not.

I don't snapshot minions on my summoners, but have to admit, that not snapshotted summoners are weak as hell on 74+ maps compared to other builds. Virtually the only summoners' unique which can be used there is Bones, res is so crap defensive wise, that it's for suiciders. You don't have sockets to use all skills you would need to use, especially for auras.

So I love this decision about removing snapshotting, but I hope, that all summoners gems/gear will be re-balance knowing, that it will not be used only for snapshotting.

I can do lvl 78 maps without snapshot without any issue, with 7 auras, and you are wrong about only unique , Midnight Bargain will continue to be the best 1H summoner weapon.

Zombie+Empower+Melee Splash+Multistrike+Minion Life+Faster Attack ( or remote mine or melee physical .. ) is working perfectly well without snapshot.

And for spectre evangelist, increase area, faster casting, added fire..

EASY MOD.

my tree :

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAnEEswZJB2MMfQ5cEHQQfxCXEVARlhNsFVAXLxmKGmwajxzcHRQdqiSLJLAo-ilPKpgvbzrYO-E8jkNjRARFfkZxTblN2FXWVi1XK1fJWPVakVyKZOdmnmqsa9ttGW-ecLtxTXNTfLt9GH_GgKSBb4LHgwmFYIbRiECLeox2j0aQM5Mnms-boZu1na6dxJ48oqOmrKcIpyuofarErH-0DLcxuJO_l8HzwzrGnsk9ykrMvNDQ0_vZC9kT4Yji9-Qi5oHquuvu7DjsivIe89322vfB99f56PqA-tL7Cf5J

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janinja wrote:

I think that summoners is one special class that as it is now has capped potential.

Unlike mellee and casters that can have powerful pieces of gear to choose from, summoners rely on their 20/20 gems + supports + passives and some not so powerful uniques. Thats it for their max endgame! They can't benefit from some uber mirrored gear that other classes enjoy or some other synergizing uniques and passives (low life coe, pain attunement etc}.

Even then, they are excluded from the only way to increase their dps via critical passives.
Mellee has criticals, casters have criticals, but summoners not!

So my suggestion is to buff some defensive passives (why not some offensive too) and allow the crit passives to synergize with minions. That way a summoner could choose to spend points in defence or offense and crit, thus creating two types of summoners, tanky and glass canon, as every other class... (and they lived happily ever after}

...(please GGG...???}

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gingasteve wrote:

You have one 6-link chest or two-handed weapon to socket your raise spectre gem in, you summon your first 2 spectres (offensive) 5 support gems used, you then switch 3 of these support gems for 3 different support gems for your defensive spectre, then another 2 swapped for your utility spectre. That's 5+3+2=10 support gems used + raise spectre meaning you essentially have an 11 link chest. Because whilst you have all these spectres you are gaining the effects of all the support gems you have used. Yes it is more fun for you, yes it clearly gives you an advantage. Which is why i for one am glad to see the back of snapshotting.

\o/

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gingasteve wrote:

Congrats on not even reading my post correctly. As i stated in the post you gain the effects of 10 support gems across your 4 snapshotted specs. which is in essence the same as having an 11 link. No where in the post did i say they were all support by 10.

Which why I i'm 110% glad they got rid of this.

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lk_77lk wrote:

Before SotV i was running with a clean empty inventory, not even a scroll inthere...
Then i got used to have a stack of , Scroll, Transmute, Augmentation, Alteration, Chance, Alch, Regal and Chaos., Almost the same space of a 2H, or Bow, always used in my inventory.

then why not carry a helm or a chest for occasional situation?




Most people complain about uber build, CRown of Eyes and shav... but for a Summoner, Shav could be great, but it lack armor and ES and better stats you'l find on a rare.
Crown.. seriously what's the point it didnt give you much of an advantage, it is you minions who deal damage and going from 1k to 1.3k dps at max wont even sustain your shield.
Apparently many assimilate snapshoting to abuse or link it to Uber streamed build..


Hi have many exemple to provide where this is diversity it gave and versatility.

Let's assume im building a power Siphon build, most of the gear and the passive will only work till lv 68 (lv 20 reduced mana, lv 20 blood magic gem)
If by chance i have a Covenant or a Simula i coul use the blood magic to preview what the build will do and correct before going lv 68.






What few understand is that for summoner, it's the only way to be a bit decent, by that i mean: just level up a lv 82-85 Summoner, and now go to party with 3 people in a little 74 maps... just feel the useless and underpowering feeling do you got:
Yes you can curse or dual curse, yes you provide aura for other... but if you part a little bit from the group, you will take hudge time for you minions to deal with with mobs where other party member can mow them down.


Snapshoting is a pain..but as of now there isnt any other alternative, you need both aura (minion survivability) gear for yourself (AOE mob dont only target your minions, like radiation nevers stoped at the border during nuclear disaster).

Actually you can face several choice:
Dont snapshot, be ready to jump on what map do you like... but sweat every second because you will feel so weak that the only area you dont feel threatned is Sarn...

Snapshot, only use the viable specter take ton of time to prepare and be ready to snapshot aura for tough boss... but that way you can got "safely to lv 70 maps in solo)


Now take a melee or a ranged, they dont need (i put NEED) to snapeshot, it could provide them a bunus but it is not a necessity for them and they can swapp gem at will.

summoner can swap gem (for new version) but will not be able to maintain different type of spectre or minions, that part will be removed.


Now they decided (could not find it back) a Post of one of the GGG crew stating that they found a technical solution to fix snapshoting, but they were hesitating due to what it really give to specific build like summoner or RF

Cause fixing it is doable, but what snapshoting provide is not an uber advantage, its the diversity and the fun opening many other way to play the game.

as a summoner i like to have 1 or 2 minions with faster attack + blind + melee splash + minion speed. It's unefficient, will reduce my overall DPS, but i think its fun and sometime its' work.

I also liked to have TTBs one with chain + gmp + blind + knockback.
Same, not really usefull for clearing or dps ,but very funny, it change the way you play...
I could continue for hour cause i spend almost 9 month playing exclusively summoner, while making little break to test idea or theocraft other builds. (dog pee, flicker striker as a shadow Coc...and so on)



Previously i spoke abut freeing the slot... i mostly use the BM gem cause im getting tired of swapping gear each instance and i dont care dropping one or 2 aura as different class than summoner, i usually use these slot to level the gem to the level needed for my new try/theocrafting concept.


But i have to admit, fixing snapshoting, while technically doable, will remove many possibilities, ease of play, diversity, versatility from the game. And if that has'nt been taken into account and replacement had not been designed tested for release, i could see many who will riot (that still good if they riot, cause the love the game and are willing to express themself in order to let you fix it) but the other will still simply quit, take a break or stop supporting..

Spoiler

i really hope the smoke mine/convocation missfire has been learnt and that i ll see an answer from GGG.

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peachii wrote:

Thank you - More posts like this would be awesome. I know you guys have ideas - lets hear them, the devs are hoping for and wanting some feedback - take the chance to give it to them. Within reason. Give them reasons why you think it's needed - explain it in detail. I've seen lots of people say they don't understand the issues with summoners - MAKE them understand, here is your chance.

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Ghazzy wrote:

Since this thread is being monitored by the devs to get honest opinions and thoughts on solutions for builds that will lose their potentials in clearing both regular as well as Uber atziri maps.. Here are my general thoughts:


Remake the quality bonus on the minion gems, specifically Spectres and Raging Spirits, there is not a single soul in this game that cares about movement speed as a summoner. The minions reaches movement speed cap with Haste aura and Flesh Offering.

Increase Zombie HP scaling, even the % HP from the quality would be a good way of solving this as well.

Potentially overlook the idea of having Enlighten - Empower - Enhance provide their bonuses towards other gems besides Active Skill Gems only.

Increase the stats provided to minions via the passive tree, resistances included. And consider adding/changing so that we can gain an additional spectre from the tree (yes, +2 from tree).

Do not increase the ammount of points we need to spend on minions in the tree as creating a summoner build available for regular as well as Uber atziri maps without snapshotting auras is a hell and pure pain when it comes to the pricetag of such gear that will require resistances as well as a good chunk of ES (as i've heard of no HP build being capable of uber yet i'm strictly considering ES builds in these thoughts).

Change Blood Magic gem to not affect RESERVED ammount with it's multiplier.

DO NOT, let me repeat that DO NOT add more unique summoner items to solve this as they will have the highest possible pricetag anyone could deem imaginable. (of course it would be a nice addition to the game, but for the sake of the entire summoner community, wait with such releases)

Consider in the future to add minion affecting stats to the possible craftables, such as a minion modifier on amulets/rings (blue/rare).

After some discussion with a few other summoners, a guy brought up the suggestion of adding an additional minion that would be bigger, stronger, but could only have 1-2 of that sort to be the big truck so to say. (I do not personally like that suggestion but i thought i should post it anyways).

Change minion defensive nodes to affect you as a summoner as well as your minions
Example:

Spoiler

* Minions gets +10% increased life
* You get 10% increased life
* You get 10% increased energy shield

Increase attack speed of zombies (sometimes in maps (if not linked to faster attacks, but with multistrike) they can stand stil and strike a few times in the air whilst the enemy has already moved to a different country.


And last but by far not least, minion controls:
At the moment if i "attack" in the air they will be (in most cases) moving/attack anything where i am hovering my mouse.
It would be great if said control options would actually have the minion prioritize what ever target the summoner is hitting or prioritize moving to the target the summoner is hitting towards if not targeting something. This will be very beneficial for boss fights where movement can be crucial, such as Uber Atziri 4x Clone Phase.



I'll post more ideas/suggestions when they come to mind, but thats the general ideas i have.