[2.2] Culler-support. Now also budget! - Full MF | 12.6kES | 7 Auras + Guardian

I see you came here wanting to help both the community and me, and I appreciate it. Having said that, you completely misunderstood this build.

Yours and Emfx's builds, as far as I see, have the same purpose (killing content with as much MF as possible, using flame totem as a dps source).

My build purpose is playing with groups, culling for them and buffing them while keeping myself beefy enough to survive end game with ease.

You use totems because they are a "cheap" and "safe" dps tool, while not requiring crit scaling so you can stack iir. I use totems because they offer consistent culls, and I can stack iir because I have zero dps on gear and passives. Despite the tree sharing around 80 points, both are very different builds.

I agree with most of the feedback you provided regarding guide formating and how to connect better with the readers. It probably comes down to why did I write the guide in the first place.
After the author of the first culler + support stopped playing, there wasn't anyone willing to update any culler build. So I wanted to have a place to disscuss the build with people who already had a glance of it.

If it gets more attention, I'll try to make it more clear for the reader. First I have to make sure that the advice I give is correct, before spreading it.

Hi, I building sth quite different from you, but on the same purpose.
Have a look to my post if you gad time !

here

"

dulahan200 wrote:

I see you came here wanting to help both the community and me, and I appreciate it. Having said that, you completely misunderstood this build.

Yours and Emfx's builds, as far as I see, have the same purpose (killing content with as much MF as possible, using flame totem as a dps source).

My build purpose is playing with groups, culling for them and buffing them while keeping myself beefy enough to survive end game with ease.

You use totems because they are a "cheap" and "safe" dps tool, while not requiring crit scaling so you can stack iir. I use totems because they offer consistent culls, and I can stack iir because I have zero dps on gear and passives. Despite the tree sharing around 80 points, both are very different builds.

I agree with most of the feedback you provided regarding guide formating and how to connect better with the readers. It probably comes down to why did I write the guide in the first place.
After the author of the first culler + support stopped playing, there wasn't anyone willing to update any culler build. So I wanted to have a place to disscuss the build with people who already had a glance of it.

If it gets more attention, I'll try to make it more clear for the reader. First I have to make sure that the advice I give is correct, before spreading it.

Thanks for the explanation :) Culling Aura-bot.

A few things directed at your tree then. Could you put the math down for running 9-11 auras?

Also, have you considered dropping ancestral bond, and running the following setup:


I am looking forward to seeing this in action.

Got to level 59 today, I'm able to run 8-9 auras right now. Still waiting for the perfect Perandus Blazon to show up on the market before I get one. Also saving my currency to get a Prism Guardian and maybe Alpha's Howl.

Current Tree:


Current Gears and Gem Links:

"

I hope you update soon! Don't want to waste any of my Refund Points or Orb of Regrets! :D

"

Fri3dchick3m wrote:

Spoiler

Spell Totem + Arc + Item Rarity + Culling Strike + Faster Casting + Chain? Or if you have plenty of ES, you could swap culling strike for a Quantity gem in a Reapers Pursuit?

You could then run:

Spectral Throw + Faster Attacks + PCoC + Increase Critical Strikes in a 4-link to keep charges up for shock-stacks. Adding Leadership, Conduit and an easy path to 2 Power Charge nodes, you'd be supplying the whole group with 5 Power Charges and shocked targets.

Plus you could keep 40 more rarity and culling with the axe.

Would one of these choices be better than running Spell Totem + Incinerate + Etc?
I would like to know as soon as possible before I waste any currency from switching gems.

Got home, so now I can start testing by myself, in that order:

1-If prism is really required this patch, don't buy one yet.

2-Optimizing passive tree

3-Different culling spells. I have deeply tested incinerate and flame totem. I'll test ball lightning and arc, but I don't think they'll go through.

Mechanical question: how does spell echo work?

Is useless for culling, or a better version of faster casting?




Edit: I'll use this to share partial results.

Can run the 10 useful auras with 185 unreserved flask. Imposible to use flask with my regen

Without vitality 297 unreserved hp. Easy to keep life pool empty when standing still, probably struggling a little in a fast group.

"

dulahan200 wrote:

Got home, so now I can start testing by myself, in that order:

1-If prism is really required this patch, don't buy one yet.

2-Optimizing passive tree

3-Different culling spells. I have deeply tested incinerate and flame totem. I'll test ball lightning and arc, but I don't think they'll go through.

Mechanical question: how does spell echo work?

Is useless for culling, or a better version of faster casting?

Maybe we can look at this from a different perspective. The best culling setup would be:

1. To be able to cast extremely fast
2. Reach multiple targets at once
3. To have an extended range capable of reaching farther targets
4. Cheap cost (Mana/required supports)

1. Flame totem wins at 0.2s, followed closely by Incinerate. Arc takes 4x longer (0.8s) and would be improved with Faster Casting (which would make Arc cast every 0.6s).
2. FT and Inc. would be paired with LMP or GMP. Arc would use Chain
3. FT and Inc. require Faster projectiles. Arc would require no additional support for comparable range.
4. Running each of these as options, the culling gems would look like:

Arc: Arc + Spell Totem + IR + IQ + Culling Strike + Chain (No room for Faster Casting unless you 6L equipping a Reapers Pursuit)
Incinerate: Incinerate + Spell Totem + IR + IQ + Culling Strike + GMP (No room for Faster Projectiles unless you 6L equipping a Reapers Pursuit)
Flame Totem: Flame Totem + Faster Projectiles + IR + IQ + Culling Strike + GMP

How they rate on paper?
Flame Totem - the fastest and least support-driven of all three only lacks the range of Arc.
Incinerate - Very close to Flame totem, except would require a Reaper's Pursuit to be as effective for range as Flame Totem.
Arc - The slowest, but potentially the best at "Pack Culling" for its ability to hit several targets at once, even if they aren't tightly packed.

Edit: Spell Echos only works for Self-Cast spells.

Spell Echo will result in much faster cast speeds at the cost of damage (which we don't care about). Best you can attain with Faster Casting, is 49% increase cast rate. Spell Echo will deliver up to 69% more cast speed.

Edit: Replaced Echo with Faster Casting in the analysis.

1.Flame totem is the way to go when you are lacking links (sry Mini, I knew it and forgot to say).

2.Culling strike is out of the equation, as we use . The scenario is 6L + heart.

3. Incinerate and flame totem are the same. Incinerate is better for lategame mapping, flame totem is better for boss runs.

4. Culling spell+ spell totem +iiq+iir uses 4 links. We have 3 free slots (3 in new leagues)

For incinerate we use faster projectiles, whereas for high cast time spells we use spell echo to compensate for it.

Next slot would be gmp (chain for arc).

I still have no idea how echo works. repeat an additional time, and also gives 69% more cast speed according to wiki. So.. it gives 1.69*(1+1)=3.38 more casted spells? Seems way to strong to work that way.

PS: I'm editting previous post to update aura related improvements. Once I have something definitive I'll update OP.

Heartbreaker explicitly states "Your spells have Culling Strike". which is not the same as spells your totem cast. Only the Reaper's Pursuit provides a global culling to attacks and spells.

Regarding comment

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3. Incinerate and flame totem are the same. Incinerate is better for lategame mapping, flame totem is better for boss runs.

Can you explain the difference? Why is one better than the other in either situation? All that matters is the first tick when the target is 10% hp or lower.

"

4. Culling spell+ spell totem +iiq+iir uses 4 links. We have 3 free slots (3 in new leagues)

So, at this point, you have a 3-link for your culling ability? You will need one of those slots to be a Culling Strike support grm. That leaves you with the best 2-link skill you can find on a totem. Adding Spell Totem+Anything leaves no room for IR or IQ. Flame Totem makes you pick IR or the more valuable IQ. Can't have both.

The only way to fix your problem is to make mandatory a 6L Reaper's Pursuit, or a Prism Guardian (if you don't need one right now -to free up a blood magic gem and a 4-link group).

"

For incinerate we use faster projectiles, whereas for high cast time spells we use spell echo to compensate for it.

Again, by the same mechanic, Spell Echo is not an option because, spells you cast =/= spells your totem cast.

I've tested enough to conclude that the build took a hit in 1.2 :(

No ZO until lvl 95 I believe. I can run 11 auras while having enough mana for totems, but not for flask. 9 auras seems to be my comfort zone.

"

Fri3dchick3m wrote:

Heartbreaker explicitly states "Your spells have Culling Strike". which is not the same as spells your totem cast. Only the Reaper's Pursuit provides a global culling to attacks and spells.

Despite the wording, it works.

"

Fri3dchick3m wrote:

Regarding comment

"

3. Incinerate and flame totem are the same. Incinerate is better for lategame mapping, flame totem is better for boss runs.

Can you explain the difference? Why is one better than the other in either situation? All that matters is the first tick when the target is 10% hp or lower.

Incinerate 20q bonus is 40% projectile speed, which is more valuable than 30% life according to my experience. Flame has lower cast time, which makes it better against bosses.

"

Fri3dchick3m wrote:

"

4. Culling spell+ spell totem +iiq+iir uses 4 links. We have 3 free slots (3 in new leagues)

So, at this point, you have a 3-link for your culling ability? You will need one of those slots to be a Culling Strike support grm. That leaves you with the best 2-link skill you can find on a totem. Adding Spell Totem+Anything leaves no room for IR or IQ. Flame Totem makes you pick IR or the more valuable IQ. Can't have both.

The only way to fix your problem is to make mandatory a 6L Reaper's Persuit, or a Prism Guardian (if you don't need one right now -to free up a blood magic gem and a 4-link group).

"

For incinerate we use faster projectiles, whereas for high cast time spells we use spell echo to compensate for it.

Again, by the same mechanic, SPell Echo is not an option because spells you cast =/= spells your totem cast.

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Not sure if it happens like heartbreaker. I don't have any to test by myself, so I apreciate if someone borrows me one, or compares cast time with faster casting himself

I have a couple. I'll test when I get home from work. I can also test spell echo - but I doubt that it works. Have to pull up some google info on that.

Edit:

I just verified that totem casted spells do cull with Hearbreaker. You will not see any indication on the tooltip description, but it does work.

In other news; Spell Echo does not work with totem-cast spells.