[2.0] THOR'S RAINBOWNUKE: DO ALL MAPS, UBER ATZIRI, AND EXPLOSIONS!
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Is anyone here who is not using Vaal Pact using Zealot's Oath in 2.0? Just curious.
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard |
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Not me, nope. Also, did some testing just now with an Intuitive Leap gem and respeccing around so that I could have 5 Power Charges and 5 Endurance Charges. Believe it or not, it's actually very easy to maintain that many charges even with a legacy Mjolner and I ran two lower level maps just to try it out and see. While it did work and I was able to spec for it, I did lose around 800+ ES, though I did gain a jewel socket and could have possibly tweaked my tree a bit more for optimization. However, that wasn't what I was trying to do, but rather to see if 5 ECs + the Potency of Will cluster was worth it. The conclusion...a big fat NO. :(
It really sucks, but unfortunately, even with all of the above and 20/20 IC/Increased Duration the most I could get was a 4 second IC...maybe a tiny bit more. I tried it many times, but while I could consistently get the charges the times were just not there. It MIGHT be possible to get more time with 6 ECs, but the sheer amount of points you need to give up for longer IC times IS NOT worth it. This really, really sucks, but it seems our best bet is to just stick with the base 3 charges and spend the points elsewhere on spell damage, ES, AS, or jewel sockets. They are much better defensive investments and we're just going to have to play around with approximate 3 second IC times and be more careful around physical damage modified maps. |
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Edit: This is all wrong. Also now I remember why I wasn't a math major
OK so HUGE thanks to Tanakeah for drawing my attention to revisiting the math on extra charges as I'm writing up the build guide for 2.0.
TL;DR is this --> With Legacy Mjolner, a 4th Power Charge is an 18% MORE average lightning damage multiplier to discharge and about an 8% more damage multiplier overall. On Legacy Mjolner, you are going to want 4 Power Charges and 4 Endurance Charges. On New Mjolner you are going to want 5. I, along with everyone else posting about it in this thread since its inception, have been very wrong about the math on extra power charges. Here is the correct math... x = lightning damage dealt per power charge The average damage you expect to do is as follows: Sum the following for as many power charges as you have: {power charge #} * {X} * {1-proc chance of mjolner}^({power charge #}-1) So for 3 charges on a legacy mjolner it looks like this: 1*x*0.5^(1-1) + 2*x*0.5^(2-1) + 3*x*0.5^(3-1) Work that out and you'll find that you get 2.75*x. This means that, whatever your lightning damage is per power charge, you can expect your average lightning damage from discharge to be 2.75 times that amount with 3 charges. With 4 charges the math looks like this on a legacy mjolner: 1*x*0.5^(1-1) + 2*x*0.5^(2-1) + 3*x*0.5^(3-1) + 4*x*0.5^(4-1) Work that out and you'll get 3.25*x. This means you are doing, on average, (3.25 / 2.75) = ~18% MORE damage with discharge on average. Do the math over again for 5 charges and you'll find that it's ~9% more than 4 charges (3.5625 vs 3.25). NOTE that with a NEW Mjolner you are going to want 5 charges, as a 4th charge gives you 35% more damage than 3, a 5th charge gives you 23% more damage than 4, and a 6th charge gives you 15% more than 5. This is a HUGE oversight on my part for the past year+ on this build. Will have to respec and test tonight. EDIT --> Keep in mind that an 18% more multiplier to your Discharge damage is not going to be an 18% overall more damage multiplier. It will be (1.18*(lightning damage per power charge)+arc damage)/((lightning damage per power charge)+arc damage)... I'm pretty sure that's going to work out to ~8% MORE damage overall, but I'll test tonight to confirm. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard Last edited by tackle70#1293 on Jul 23, 2015, 2:37:43 PM
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Ok, so I've been playing around a bit more with the build, did more testing as shown, and I think I've come across what works out pretty nicely for me. Again, nothing here is totally final, but I am thusfar satisfied with what I have here and will link both my gear and passive tree. This is my take on the non-Vaal Pact/non-Vitality aura low-life rainbownuke variant, and should serve as an interesting guide template for those who might want to try out something similar. First, lemme start off with the gear and then right into the tree:
The Gear
Spoiler
The Passive Tree Not sure if I can link the jewels here since they're in the tree, so I'll simply list them one by one here and with the stats on each. Granted, you could see them in the tree, but they might change later on, so here's what I have for the time being: The Jewels
Spoiler
1. Hypnotic Blast (Crimson Jewel) - 14% IPD w/2H Melee Weapons, 4% IAS, 8% IAS w/Maces, +10 All Resist
2. Clear Mind (Cobalt Jewel) - 24% Mana Regen, 56% Increased Spell Damage when no mana is reserved 3. Rapture Ornament (Cobalt Jewel) - 10% Increased Spell Damage, 16% Increased Spell Damage when Dual-Wielding, +13 Strength, 7% Increased Maximum Energy Shield 4. Brood Solace (Cobalt Jewel) - +14 Strength, 6% Increased Maximum Life, 8% Increased Maximum Energy Shield, 2% Increased Cast/Attack Speed 5. Apocalypse Cut (Cobalt Jewel) - 16% Increased Spell Damage while holding a Shield, +12 Intelligence, +10 Strength/Dex 6. Dragon Wisdom (Cobalt Jewel) - 15% Increased Lightning Damage, 8% Increased Maximum Energy Shield, 16% Increased Shock Duration/2% Chance to Shock, 3% Increased Cast/Attack Speed 7. Viper Stone (Cobalt Jewel) - +14 Strength, 14% CSC w/Lightning Skills, 6% Increased Maximum Energy Shield, 13% Increased Shock Duration/3% Chance to Shock 8. Sol Eye (Cobalt Jewel) - 10% Increased Spell Damage, 16% Increased Lightning Damage, 7% Increased Maximum Energy Shield, 4% Increased Ignite Duration/3% Chance to Ignite All right, let's delve into each category then, shall we? ANd yes, this is gonna be a bit long, so bear with me here... 1. The Gear - I have to highlight this first by saying the gloves did not have the Cold Resist on them, and that came about from a VERY LUCKY 1-shot Exalt craft as I have no Eternal Orbs on me. Don't expect to get that lucky, but yeah... :p Anyway, I won't go into massive gearing stuff as the main guide for this will do so later on, but needless to say focusing where you can on Strength is going to be the biggest thing you'll have to face. I do use Headhunter because I have it, and it's quite the nice belt, but if you do choose to use it as well be aware you're going to have to make sure you make up for resists where you can. If not, then the Dory's belt (lightning variant) is pretty much the go-to belt for this build. I got very lucky as well with the Shav's and its colors, so it is very flexible with what I can put in it. From my testing, I've settled on going the Fortify route and filling in the spare blue socket with Added Chaos damage. Added Lightning or Physical to Lightning works out fine, too, but I like Added Chaos because it's damage that is non-reflectable and can punch through ES at the same time. Not that this build has issues with it, but yeah, just my personal taste there. Gem colors and socketing were things I had to work around, especially on the boots and I settled on Enhance for my Heralds instead of Empower. I found that I squeezed out a bit more damage from Enhance, and since I can't recolor the boots, that's what I go with. I was using Flame Golem originally, but switched over to Leap Slam so I could lose my Quicksilver flask and replaced it with Atiri's Promise. Though L.Slam isn't as quick without Faster Attacks it still gets me around plenty fine and I'm not looking to go balls-to-the-wall fast with this build anyway, so that is what I filled in the spare red boot socket in with. The Enlighten gem in the gloves is just...well...I dunno what else to put there and I don't want to try and recolor the sockets on them, even though it wouldn't be that hard with Vorici, but I might use that one socket for leveling something. Or maybe if I get lucky and get a 3R1B combo I'll chuck an Empower gem in there to get a bit more out of IC and Vaal Discipline. Rest of the gear is pretty standard fare and should be easy to see what I am doing with it. Be aware those that are looking at this, this gear has taken me a long, long time to get so don't get too eager thinking you can get it fast. Use it as a guide for how you might want to look at stats and things of that nature for your own gearing purposes. All right, let's move onto the next part...the Passive Tree. The Passive Tree - Ok...wow...I spent A LOT of Regrets and testing with this thing, and here is what I have come up with that I am satisfied with. Of course, be aware that what you see can change overtime, but this tree is something I designed for the non-Vaal Pact/Non-Vitality life regen variant I was experimenting on. The main thrust of this design was to have enough regen that LGoH on jewels or nodes on the tree weren't needed, and the Vitality aura could be subbed out for other things. The Shaper and Sanctity notables are plenty to get the job done, but I went into the Scion life regen for a little extra to help out on half-regen maps as well as get the jewel socket, which is nice. Obviously, this variant cannot handle 'NO REGEN' maps, but I hate that mod anyway so I don't even bother with it, but just be aware that this mod is a no-no and on half-regen you'll likely have to pulsate your attacks and go a bit slower, but it is doable. Of course, I needed enough aura nodes to make sure I could get everything running on life, as well as enough aura effect boosters to get my Purities granting me another 2% along with the 4% they give as a base. That is a total of at least 50% aura effectiveness for those who are curious. Because of how my gems are setup and the like, I don't use level 21 Purities and Empower them to get +5, which is my own choice and I am aware that it does make me a bit weaker. Just means that if you go this route you have to play a bit more carefully around elemental reflect and take your time, or if you're not confident then skip Elemental Reflect maps. -Max Resist can be done, but be very cautious and make liberal use of your flasks to make sure you don't kill yourself. That important note taken care of I also want to stress that THIS TREE IS BUILT AND OPTIMIZED AROUND MY GEAR AND JEWELS AND THE ATTRIBUTES THEY PROVIDE! DO NOT copy this tree bit for bit, but instead use it as a GUIDE for your own purposes and change and tweak them according to what you are able to get. In any case, as you can see this tree aims to take A LOT of jewel nodes - EIGHT in total - and try to fit the best kinds of jewels one can into the sockets and really make use of all of them. I'll get the jewels later on, but suffice to say getting 8 jewel sockets gives you A LOT of extra stats you can fish for and really use to boost yourself as needed, and most of them are within easy reach of the general pathing this tree takes. Most of it should be pretty self-explanatory, but I went with the Templar area not only just for the AOE increase, but the 'Elementalist' notable is very juicy with all it offers, and the 'Retribution' notable along with the 'Precision' path also sweet. Yeah, the accuracy doesn't matter thanks to RT, but 'Retribution' combined with all of the other nodes down to 'Sanctity' gives me a big 14% IAS, which is great for this build since we lose out on Blood Rage and the like. Other than that...pretty much just want to mention this is for a level 95 Witch that has taken all of the passive points from the bandit quests, and my last 5 points will likely be to pick up the flask nodes...OR...potentially something that tackle70 has mentioned above. In my testing of trying to see if I could get a longer Immortal Call time going with more PC/ECs, I found that it wasn't worth the points spent to do it. HOWEVER, what I didn't realize at first was that while the idea failed, I was noticing that I COULD maintain 4/4 PC/EC and even 5/5 PC/EC combos with a legacy Mjolner without much issue. It wasn't 1--% perfect, but it was very consistent, even on single target or small groups. Granted, this was with Molten Strike and I haven't tested it with Lightning Strike, but this does bring up a potential possibility for those of you wanting to squeeze out more DPS. Using the jewel socket in the Templar area near the "Elementalist" notable you can slot an "Intuitive Leap" jewel, which is this here: By putting the jewel there it gives you a big enough Radius that you can get both the Endurance Charge and Power Charge notables, and even 'Faith and Steel' (a very good notable), and they're all well-worth it. In fact, even with the tree I posted now, you could potentially sacrifice the jewel socket and two Int nodes leading to it above the 'Shaper' notable to get those, or even the regen nodes in the Scion area, either works. As Tackle's math is showing, getting those charges will not only help you out a bit with IC, but you'll get more damage, and more importantly you'll get much more lightning damage thanks to the PC. In fact, on my tree, if you wanted to sacrifice the 'Amplify' notable in the AOE cluster, you could exchange that for the PC from the Merciless Alira bandit reward, and get a total of 5 Power Charges and 4 Endurance Charges, and still get some decent defensive boosts, to boot. I haven't done testing myself with this, but I'll also give it a run through and see if that might be worth it, though be aware that with my setup you're going to lose two potential jewel sockets (one for respeccing out of and one to fit the IL jewel in for whatever else was in there originally), but the extra goodies you get could very well be worth it. ...Always something new and exciting, indeed! ^_^ All right, let's move onto the last section with the jewels. The Jewels I already listed all of the ones I currently have and they change overtime, but here are some suggestions for what you should look for if you're going to go this particular route for the rainbownuke build: 1. Increased Max Energy Shield - Pretty self-explanatory. ES is our life, so the more of it the better...really can't go wrong with this, but is on Cobalts only, I believe. Comes as a Prefix. 2. +Strength or +Strength/Int or +Strength/Dex - Pretty much use these for fulfilling stat requirements to equip you're Mjolner and any high-level Dex gems you have. Can save you more than a few passive points with pathing and having to take the big +30 stat notables, too. Int isn't bad if you get it as it allows for a bit more ES percentage. Comes as a Suffix. 3. Attack Speed - I find that I am comfortable at around 5.00 attacks per second on this build when all is said and done, but you really can't go wrong with more. Comes as both a Prefix and a Suffix, but in varying degrees. You can get these on Cobalts, but the Crimson jewels will allow you to roll specific weapon IAS like Maces, which give you a bit more, but be aware Crimsons can't roll ES%. Viridian Jewels can also work here, too. 4. Spell/Lightning Damage/Spell Damage while holding a Shield - Spell Damage will do more for you as it affects all of Discharge's damage, but if you get Lightning Damage, then that's plenty fine, too. Believe these are only found on Cobalt Jewels. Think they're Prefixes. 5. Increased Shock Duration/Chance to Shock - Arc will do its job for the most part, but if you're fighting a boss where Arc can't jump enough times and do enough damage, then this little extra boost can help. You'll get 5% by default if going through 'Elementalist' but this also gives extra duration, which means more time to get the shock refreshed and wittle down bigger targets with better efficiency. This one is a Suffix. I can't really say which set of affixes on jewels is entirely the most optimal, as they are very customizable, like rings, but those are a few of the stats to be on the lookout for and to use for this build in general. It's tough to roll these well, so your best bet might be looking to buy them on poe.goods, and as time goes by more and more will become available, but yeah. For now, tough to find the really good ones, especially 4-stat ones since you'll either need to get lucky with Chaos spamming or a lucky Exalt roll. ...All right, this has dragged on for long enough. :p I'm sure I've forgotten a few specific things in this build, but for now I'll lay this as the groundwork for all of my findings thusfar and leave it at that. Feel free to ask any questions you have and I'll be happy to answer them as best as my knowledge can. :) Last edited by Tanakeah#5640 on Jul 22, 2015, 12:42:42 PM
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Yeah... this is totally wrong
OK so just got on and looked at all my damage values. Dropped the flask nodes, respecced my bandit quest to +1 Endurance Charge, and took the +1 max power charge node up north of witch for 4 endurance and power charges.
Ran the math on everything and getting 4 Endurance + 4 Power charges is, on average, a 9.6% more overall damage multiplier with my legacy mjolner. That assumes Arc and Discharge are hitting the same number of targets. In very heavy AoE where Discharge can hit everything but Arc is limited, that number would be a bit higher and come closer to approaching the 18% more average damage present on discharge itself. In theory, a 4 EC proc of Immortal Call with 20/20 IC and 20/20 Increased Duration is going to be >3 seconds and allow for permanent IC (lasting longer than its cooldown) but I don't know how often IC is going to proc with 4 full charges. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard Last edited by tackle70#1293 on Jul 23, 2015, 2:38:31 PM
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Why not just do 5 charges for the fun of it, also any suggestions if somebody can't recolor there Shav with 3 red 2 green 1 blue any other good options so far I've been stuck with curses because of this
Last edited by nitro1914#4328 on Jul 22, 2015, 8:02:23 PM
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" What colors do you have on your Shav's currently? If you link it then we can help you out a bit. |
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" You can go with my setup below, which is very similar to tackle70's but with the addition of AA for additional defence. |
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Important new patch note fix incoming for 2.0.0g concerning Lightning Strike:
Fixed a bug where projectiles from Lightning Strike (when supported by Multistrike or similar) could trigger melee things like Fortify. |
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" If you want to go with 5 charges on a legacy mjolner there's no real reason you can't, I just don't think it's worth a jewel slot or an ES/Spell Damage notable, because that's basically the trade off you're facing when thinking of spending two passive points to pick up a 5th power charge. On new mjolner it is more or less mandatory to get the 5th charge though. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard |
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