General Discussion - GZ FranzKafka, First level 100 on nemesis league! - Forum

Anybody trying to argue that abusing this bug that trivializes content is not exploitative behaviour is either insane or in denial. There's nothing to debate. I mostly blame GGG for not hotfixing this IMMEDIATELY. Now you'll have on the one hand people who care about ladder competition feeling cheated upon and rightfully so, and on the other hand a bunch of abusers decorating the ladder. The rest of us are just watching in disbelief as GGG are taking their sweet time hotfixing a gamebreaking exploit...	Posted by Lacceh#6619 on Jan 16, 2014, 1:58:00 PM Quote this Post
It is on GGG's head, nobody is questioning that. However this changes nothing about the fact that the community will be disappointed in Havoc for demonstrating what he did in this league. [Removed by Admin] Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes Last edited by Kieren_GGG#0000 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:07:49 PM	Posted by Boem#2861 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:00:27 PM On Probation Quote this Post
" mazul wrote: ... " Freesland2 wrote: ... This has nothing to do with trying to get those players punished. However, everyone is free to disapprove with one another, and right now people are hating because of what they feel were the usage of unethical methods in which to gain an unfair advantage. There are players who make use of any kinds of bugs/exploits to achieve something, and they are those that do not and would rather report bugs/exploits asap for the health of the game and the community. You two may be full of admiration or even worshipful for the first category of players who may have been smart enough to have found an exploit and used it for personal gain, but myself and other players feel that that is an act worthy of condemnation, and unless of course our condemnation of that behaviour is against the "rules" as mazul seems to have a fondness of referring to, we shall continue to do so, and you of course may continue to support what we feel is an unethical behaviour but which you would consider laudable. Build of the Week 14 The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader	Posted by Invalesco#7360 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:06:56 PM Alpha Member Quote this Post
" Boem wrote: " It is disgusting how people are doing a misdirected witch hunt. The community is doing nothing of this kind. the witch hunt is a direct result of using an exploit while being fully aware it was an exploit. And by not alarming GGG about this issue and asking if it is allowed y/n insulting GGG and the other top-ladder players. The simplest example of this is Kripp : finds an exploit, the very next day he uses it on his stream for everybody to see, and even marvel at his brilliance of finding it. Everybody applauds, even at the GGG office some people marvel at the brilliance of mechanics used in order to bypass other mechanics. It gets fixed, and there is a mutual respect between GGG and the community, for both alarming them, and then having the honor to come forth with it before it effect's the gameplay on a massive scale. Havoc : finds an exploit, stops streaming in order to not alarm anybody so he can proceed to use it. It does not get fixed, and result's in an unbalanced league/ladder result, which may or may not effect future league's and GGG as a whole. In case one, the player is applauded for his skill, and cooperation with the company that is providing him the game by which he earns an income. Striving for a good and healthy community, even if it means patching an exploit he just found. This will most likely result in what i consider "healthy and honest" fame and more viewers. In case two, the player finds an exploit, and keeps it to himself in fear of nerf (can you nerf a glitch, imo you can not), by doing this he confirms that he is fully aware he is utilizing a non-intentional game glitch, but still proceeds to utilize it. Ridiculing the ladder players and GGG as a company. Which will not result in the same "healthy and honest" fame as mentioned in case one. And this is what you see in this thread. Are you really surprised by the fact that people wont align behind a player that promotes distance between GGG and there community? Or are you just out for a fight? Havoc created this karma for himself, now he will reap the results. Nothing will change that, it is the nature of karma to repay what has been gained. Either positive or negative. He chose for the path to negative karma, the results will reflect that. It is funny to consider that he could have chosen positive karma instead. I don't hold most people in high regard, so I am not surprised by the shit they do :). As expected, opinions vary, the "community" isn't one single mind. Why should competitors alarm GGG, when they know it is allowed to use the exploit in this competition? You may of course question GGG's stance on the whole ordeal, but you shouldn't blame the players. Karma is a belief based on superstition, you may as well believe in Santa and Friday the 13th. This message was delivered by GGG defence force.	Posted by mazul#2568 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:07:20 PM Quote this Post
" mazul wrote: You may of course question GGG's stance on the whole ordeal, but you shouldn't blame the players. Damn, you're right of course. Why did I not think about that earlier? Of course we can't blame the players even though they were in control of their own actions, we should blame GGG for not having laid down strict boundaries to control them! Build of the Week 14 The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader	Posted by Invalesco#7360 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:13:48 PM Alpha Member Quote this Post
" Invalesco wrote: " mazul wrote: ... " Freesland2 wrote: ... This has nothing to do with trying to get those players punished. However, everyone is free to disapprove with one another, and right now people are hating because of what they feel were the usage of unethical methods in which to gain an unfair advantage. There are players who make use of any kinds of bugs/exploits to achieve something, and they are those that do not and would rather report bugs/exploits asap for the health of the game and the community. You two may be full of admiration or even worshipful for the first category of players who may have been smart enough to have found an exploit and used it for personal gain, but myself and other players feel that that is an act worthy of condemnation, and unless of course our condemnation of that behaviour is against the "rules" as mazul seems to have a fondness of referring to, we shall continue to do so, and you of course may continue to support what we feel is an unethical behaviour but which you would consider laudable. Guess what man, people are going to do whatever they can get away with to get ahead in life. It's human nature and a competitive video game is going to have it just like a competitive sport or anything else. Before you say "Oh my gosh I can't believe someone could stoop so low!" try turning on the news, people stoop lower every day. GGG has supported the "if you can get away with it, do it" motto, and their opinion is really the only one that matters in this case.	Posted by Cribstaxx#4323 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:14:29 PM Quote this Post
" Lacceh wrote: I mostly blame GGG for not hotfixing this IMMEDIATELY. Pretty much this, there've been builds on the forum abusing CoD with animate guardian before Havoc posted his, they could have figured out the interaction with remote mine. But they didn't. GGG didn't hotfix a bug that was posted in the fucking forums. So he just carried his group with it. He had every right to do so, and GGG had every option to find out. even posted it at like lvl 97, and there's still no hotfix now. The build was there all the time, everybody could have found out and used it, some others even did. Summoners are useless without exploits in high lvl play. Nobody with a brain would ever run summoner without snapshoting in maps. And this is just another form of snapshoting, the snapshoting that every-singe-fucking-summoner-and-their-mother does every single fucking day. So, why does everybody hate him for winning a competition with a new form of snapshoting? The snapshoting that's been in the game for a damn long time, and is still here. Why not hate every summoner who has ever achieved something? And since summoners are based on exploits, why not just use the first exploit you find to make your summoner stronger? It's like a 300% increased lightning damage gem for sporkers. They'd all use it and be OP with it, except this one's not intended. But it's all that summoners have, it's not possible to make a top tier character out of a summoner with no exploits. Because that's what summoners are forced to be in this game, "exploiters". Hopefully, the patch is changing this, but it came too late to stop Havoc from carrying his friend, even though it could have come earlier. Good for them, I guess. GZ! What is this.. 4th account? Here since May 2012. Switching to another account for this ladder Last edited by Freesland2#5325 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:20:34 PM	Posted by Freesland2#5325 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:14:53 PM Quote this Post
" Invalesco wrote: " mazul wrote: ... " Freesland2 wrote: ... This has nothing to do with trying to get those players punished. However, everyone is free to disapprove with one another, and right now people are hating because of what they feel were the usage of unethical methods in which to gain an unfair advantage. There are players who make use of any kinds of bugs/exploits to achieve something, and they are those that do not and would rather report bugs/exploits asap for the health of the game and the community. You two may be full of admiration or even worshipful for the first category of players who may have been smart enough to have found an exploit and used it for personal gain, but myself and other players feel that that is an act worthy of condemnation, and unless of course our condemnation of that behaviour is against the "rules" as mazul seems to have a fondness of referring to, we shall continue to do so, and you of course may continue to support what we feel is an unethical behaviour but which you would consider laudable. I find it completely okay to do everything within the rules of the competition to win said competition. Havoc and FranzKafka didn't break any rule by using an exploit. I do not find it okay that you and other people condemn them for following the rules. You want to impose your personal rules on them and comdemn them when they don't follow them; that's ridiculous. You are very much welcome to try to convince GGG to change the rules infor the next major 4-month league competition and I am more than willing to support you in that cause. I think that GGG's stance on exploit-abusing is not okay if they really care about their competitions. Reason is, their current stance encourages competitors to hide exploits as long as they can, which means that for those who do not compete (such as myself), the game takes longer time to fix, which affects the economy and balance of the game. Don't blame the player, blame the game :). This message was delivered by GGG defence force.	Posted by mazul#2568 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:15:05 PM Quote this Post
" Damn, you're right of course. Why did I not think about that earlier? Of course we can't blame the players even though they were in control of their own actions, we should blame GGG for not having laid down strict boundaries to control them! Sadly, this might exactly be what happens in the future league's if even top-ladder players and streamers don't have the decency or common sense to report things like that. Sad, but true. And of course, people will blame GGG then for having these strict rules that allow no experimentation. Karma is a bitch. Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes	Posted by Boem#2861 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:17:57 PM On Probation Quote this Post
" Cribstaxx wrote: It's human nature There is no such thing as 'human nature', that's a myth. All behaviour is learned. You should educate yourself a little bit on this topic.	Posted by Lacceh#6619 on Jan 16, 2014, 2:20:39 PM Quote this Post