Penetration gems mess up balance between ele/physical

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EpsiIon wrote:

Ele pen gems have 0 affect of you lower the mob's resistance to 0, by the way. if you get a mob to say, 0 resist with curses, pen has 0 effect.

Tested this in pvp, and pen does indeed lower resist past 0. Just like any other LR mechanic can.

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Zakaluka wrote:

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EpsiIon wrote:

Ele pen gems have 0 affect of you lower the mob's resistance to 0, by the way. if you get a mob to say, 0 resist with curses, pen has 0 effect.

Tested this in pvp, and pen does indeed lower resist past 0. Just like any other LR mechanic can.

This is true in pvp, however it is not the case vs mobs, as mobs have 0 base, rather then a base of -60% for players in merci. Given I have a severe lack of tangible damage numbers, and proceeded to use the most varying damage range, light, to test said mechanic doesn't help, however, with ele weak, conduct and light pen vs a tri ele res enemy, I dealt, from what I feel/felt, the exact same damage as when I removed the pen gem.

Dev insight would be appreciated, however, I feel versus mobs is different, as their "base" so to speak resistance, is 0, rather then a players -60% due to difficulty.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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EpsiIon wrote:

Ele pen gems have 0 affect of you lower the mob's resistance to 0, by the way. if you get a mob to say, 0 resist with curses, pen has 0 effect.

This is not the case.

So it's basically ele weakness, in a gem?

This is odd, because I specifically spent the better side of 50 gcp specifically rolling light res on 65 maps, and then clearing until I found purity golems, to specifically test the gain of pen in pve, rather then another dps, and found results that speak almost exactly to the opposite of what you said


When do we get combat numbers, by the way? :(

epsi, I explained it already.

It lowers their resist cap,
as well as their resist score.

If a mob has 90% resist capped at 75%, under 40% pen it will have 35%.
If a mob has 0% resist, under 40% pen it will have -40%.

I am about 80% sure this is true. The only reason I leave such a big amount of slop in that guess is because we didn't do long enough runs to make the damage consistent.

This is after I discussed our results with DDT and Panda. Those guys are both pretty smart as well, so it's not just my judgment on this one.

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Zakaluka wrote:

epsi, I explained it already.

It lowers their resist cap,
as well as their resist score.

If a mob has 90% resist capped at 75%, under 40% pen it will have 35%.
If a mob has 0% resist, under 40% pen it will have -40%.

I am about 80% sure this is true. The only reason I leave such a big amount of slop in that guess is because we didn't do long enough runs to make the damage consistent.

This is after I discussed our results with DDT and Panda. Those guys are both pretty smart as well, so it's not just my judgment on this one.

lol it better not lower the cap.. would be op as f*k in pvp.
Would like a confirmation either way though from a dev if possible.

taek that's the other issue I'm kinda dancing around. These gems are very powerful in PVE (like doubling damage powerful) in PVP they are fucking insane. How can you ever beat a dual totem sparkler with decent crit? 2-3 curses and they remove all resist, get 120% stacked from shock then crit on top of all that damage. Even someone with low DPS is getting 200-1000% more DPS depending on how they built their character.

TBH I'm amazed to see this gem added with PVP as it seems like a nightmare to balance for PVP.

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Moosifer wrote:

How can you ever beat a dual totem sparkler with decent crit?

Conversion trap on their totems, it's gimmicky but most people don't expect it, and won't even understand where the damage is coming from :)

(gimmicky because anyone that knows what's up will just re-cast)

Oh and it's also worth pointing out that physical damage already has built-in penetration. The armor formula reduces less damage the more damage you do. There's also the accuracy mechanic for 'penetrating' evasion.