Thinking Outside the Box: What if we had dust instead of orbs?

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Pyrokar wrote:
I think it's too complicated and Poe is already complicated enough.
Now that i think about it Poe needs an in-game tutorial for beginners more than anything.
I watched a video the other day with some new people that did not know that with alt you can view the items on the ground. They had to hover with the mouse to read what items each rare monster droped.


i partly agree with this , we really need a decent tutorial but i dont think dust would be too complicated , a small description would explain everything and it would be way way better than lets say having lesser exalted exalted and greater exalted , i mean it really works fine with alt shards alch shards and such so i dont think it would be so complicated.

The huge bummer here is the excitement part , what if we had just dust?No exalted dust , no chaos dust but just dust and make it like 2(g :P) of dust serves as an alch for ilevel 60 below , X dust for a ilvl 60+ item, 20 as an exalt of ilevel 60 or below , X dust for a ilvl 60+ item etc etc.

At least this imo would solve that part but i may be harder to pull off.
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Novalisk wrote:
A lot of people will still hold onto exalted dust, because trading it for end-game items will still be more efficient than using it for crafting.
If you're talking about my grand axiom of trading — that a hand-me-down will invariably sell for less than the original cost of making it, regardless of any other changes you make to the economic system — then yes, I still believe in that.

However, the dust system heralds in some big differences which mitigate this fact, without invalidating it.

Let's look at 4 possible options:
1. Create a slightly worse piece of gear yourself
2. Create an equivalent piece of gear yourself
3. Trade for the gear offered
4. Create a slightly better piece of gear yourself
5. Create awesome super-endgame ubergear

Under the current system, your reasonable options are #3 and #5. This is because of how high-level crafting is heavily incentivized over lower-level crafting.

Under a dust system, your reasonable options are #1, #3, #4, and #5. #2 is still silly; if it's on the market, you should get the hand-me-down. However, fixing the balance between high-level and lower-level crafting now opens up additional options which were not there before.

Therefore, it's still true that players who trade will have an incentive to hoard up items, especially if many different kinds of upgrades for them are readily available on the market. However, in the case of the market not providing an upgrade, or "partially" not providing it by making it very hard to locate and/or bid on, or in the case of self-found players... all of those conditions are significantly improved.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
A decent idea, but what if you just gave currency ilvls? or at least ilvl ranges? That would help with low level crafting, and may even encourage people to run different areas to get the currency lvls they want for specific tier crafting.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
By dust I mean: instead of spending 1 Exalted Orb to add an additional affix to a rare item, you would spend X amount of "Exalted dust," which would vary from item to item based off of things like itemlevel, base item type, and so on. Based on these characteristics, each item would have have a stat called Dust Usage, displayed on the item; regardless which type of dust you're using, one crafting attempt would use the amount displayed, and if you don't have enough dust you'd get some kind of "I don't have enough dust" voice effect from your character. Dust would normally drop in piles of multiple quantity (for example, a pile of 7 Exalted dust).

What advantages would this system have?

1. The Dust Usage stat on different items could be modified, to balance low-level crafting and high-level crafting. As many of you know, most players hoard the orbs they have instead of using them. The reason for this is simple: generally speaking, it's more effective to use a Chaos Orb rerolling a high-level item like a mid/high map or an itemlevel 78 Vaal Regalia, then it is to use that same currency on a low map or on an itemlevel 39 Grove Bow. Many players never even get to that level, and thus the best way for them to use their orbs is to trade them to other players, who trade them to other players until eventually the orbs find their way to those high-level crafters. Converting to a dust system would allow GGG to adjust the cost of low-level crafting relative to high-level crafting. If players aren't using enough Orbs on low-level items, GGG could lower their Dust Usage; if the pendulum of balance then shifts to the other side and no one crafts high-level items anymore, GGG could lower or raise Dust Usage levels again to compensate. Right now, GGG has no easy mechanisms to control the balance between low- and high-level crafting; a dust system would give them exactly such a tool.


Thoughts?


i stopped reading here. from the intro i didnt see the difference between dust and gold or silver or whatever name you want to give the craftable currency. but then in 1 it becomes clearer.
ggg is supposed to act as a monetary agent, the bank of wraeclust if you will. it can raise or lower the interest on savings (low level players) and on mortgage (¨high level crafters¨).
the obvious downside of this is that you can still play the way you want, but at a cost (missed opportunity cost/income).
i like your posts scrotie but this one yells with a ranged voice ¨too much clutter¨.
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DarthSki44 wrote:
A decent idea, but what if you just gave currency ilvls? or at least ilvl ranges? That would help with low level crafting, and may even encourage people to run different areas to get the currency lvls they want for specific tier crafting.
The really big problem here is that giving currency ilvls ensures that low-level characters farm nothing of value to the end-game economy while they are leveling up. Right now, they find low-level gear which essentially has zero market value, currency, and the occasional drop-only gem. Adding ilvl restrictions to currency would kill the market value on that, too.

Remember perfect gems in Diablo 2 (expansion)? They weren't worth a whole lot, but it was something even low-level characters could farm that were valuable enough that, if you saved up enough of them, you could slowly trade up into high runes. Your suggestion would be like removing D2's pgems from the game making pgems account-bound.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Oct 14, 2013, 12:26:48 PM
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DarthSki44 wrote:
A decent idea, but what if you just gave currency ilvls? or at least ilvl ranges? That would help with low level crafting, and may even encourage people to run different areas to get the currency lvls they want for specific tier crafting.


GGG have said they want to avoid showing ilevels unless necesssary, to make things easier to understand for players not used to there being 2 levels for things. Plus, orbs can be stacked, they'd either need to stack together into a pile of any ilevel on any ilevel, or stack separately, increasing stash sizes.

e: and yeah, I like finding something useful to my level 78 dude when I'm levelling up an alt from level 1. That's one reason I prefer orbs over gold.
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Last edited by Wooser69 on Oct 14, 2013, 12:24:44 PM
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MadBro_ wrote:

The huge bummer here is the excitement part , what if we had just dust?No exalted dust , no chaos dust but just dust and make it like 2(g :P) of dust serves as an alch for ilevel 60 below , X dust for a ilvl 60+ item, 20 as an exalt of ilevel 60 or below , X dust for a ilvl 60+ item etc etc.

At least this imo would solve that part but i may be harder to pull off.


That's like bringing gold into play and the blacksmith from d3. Blasphemy!
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
What about orbs having quality ?

a 100q exalted orb can work in higher ilvl items where a lower quality one can work only in lower level ones..

A random new player can find a high quality one ( OMG! ) and will find lower quality exalteds.

You cannot raise the quality of the orb easily, but you can reduce it by using a high quality one ( a 87q exalted will drop to 0q after first use then will dissapear after second use )


How do you raise the quality of your exalted ?
a 0q exalted must remain in your stash or in a special cube, it will raise in quality while you are leveling

=> garantee exalted when your char reach level 80
=> cannot be abused
=> lower item level items can be crafted

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Again : Should we ask for a self-craft league ? Probably!But will it happen ? I don't think so ( same for self-found league)
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Last edited by Inexium on Oct 14, 2013, 12:30:45 PM
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Tyronis3 wrote:
I was skeptical at first, but I actually really like this idea. Mostly the ability to adjust crafting cost for different ilvl items so that crafting early on isn't a waste. Also being able to drop fractions of orbs more commonly seems a much better system than uncommonly finding the whole orb.

Great idea imo, but I doubt GGG would change their system so dramatically :/


Exactly my thoughts!
I don't get what is wrong with this system? Why would you want to go something that has been done so many times before...
You complain about hoarding, that was the intention, a natural currency evolution. There will allways be hoarders, be it gold, orbs or dust.
I love the system as it is now, it creates economies that change over time, are different in every league, what do you want more? Some boring gold counter?

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