Yep, double posting, but for good reason since you already looked at my post and corrected the MoM thing.
If the idea is to go Lightning Coil over Cloak of Defiance, this may just change your opinion (this is going from his build, which is different, but the comparison is very interesting):
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MatrixFactor wrote:
Armors: Cloak of Defiance vs. Lightning Coil vs. Rare
When comparing these armor choices, I'm going to assume we're using the L90 tree from the beginning of this thread. To compare these armors we're going to see how we do when we are hit for 4k damage which is one of physical, fire, or lightning. We focus on these damage types since they're the most relevant to dangerous situations in the current game, and they're the most relevant for fighting atziri. We also assume we have -180 flat physical and fire reduction from arctic armor.
Cloak of Defiance has always been popular with life-EB characters. Many raging spirit users are embracing it. It provides about 250 mana (+mana and +es), and around 500 evasion rating. It also provides around 45% mana regen and 40% damage taken from mana before it is taken from life. When using Cloak of Defiance we are left to run 3x60% auras and clarity. Thus our life will remain the same as it was without an armor, and our resists will be 77/77/77 fire/cold/light. With Grace, and with my spec, this would be 9.4k armor (45% reduction), 669 unreserved mana, and 334 mana regenerated per second. With discipline and my spec this would be 2914 armor (20% reduction), 1230 unreserved mana, and 442 mana/sec.
Suppose we are hit for 4000 phys damage. With discipline our armor reduces it to 4000*0.8=3200. After AA we are left with 3020 damage. Then 40%=1208 is taken from mana. We take 3020-1208=1812 damage to life. With grace our armor reduces it to 4000*0.55=2200, then after AA we are left with 2020. 40% is 808, but since we only have 670 unreserved mana, we take 2020-670=1350 damage to life.
Suppose we are hit for 4000 light damage. Our 77 resist reduces it to 4000*0.23=920 light damage. Then 40% is taken from mana, 40% of 920 is 368. Whether we are using discipline or grace we take 552 damage from life.
Suppose we are hit for 4000 fire damage. Our 77 reduces it to 920 fire damage. AA removes 180 fire damage leaving us with 840. We take 504 damage from life with discipline or grace.
Lightning Coil provides 600 armor, 600 evasion, 80 life, and 40% of physical damage taken as lightning damage. It also has a drawback of -60 lightning resists. With Lightning Coil we can use 3x60% auras, one 40%, and clarity. With 234% life from tree our life gain will be 80*(1+2.34)=267. Since we will be running L20 Purity of Lightning our resists will be 77/77/83.
Suppose we are hit for 4000 phys damage. 60% of this, 2400 will remain physical. With discipline this part will be reduced to 75% or 2400*0.75=1800. Then it will be reduced by AA to 1620. The remaining 1600 lightning damage must go through 83% resists, and only 272 is left. In total we take 1892 damage to life. With grace this would be 2400*0.53+272-180=1544 damage taken from life.
Suppose we are hit for 4000 fire damage. After resists and AA we are left with 840 fire damage taken from life.
Suppose we are hit for 4000 light damage. We reduce this to 17% and take 680 damage from life.
A rare armor, for the purposes of this comparison, provides around 400 mana through ES, 500 evasion or armor, and 100 life. After 234% from tree this becomes 334 extra life. We would want to run grace with a rare armor. The physical mitigation would be around 45%, and we could use PoL to get 77/77/83 resists.
If we are hit for 4000 phys damage we take 4000*0.55-180=2020 from life.
If we are hit for 4000 fire damage we take 840 from life.
If we are hit for 4000 lightning damage we take 680 from life.
Taking MoM on tree. On our tree MoM costs three points. This costs 12-18% life, 16% mana, 4% chaos res, and 30% aura radius.
With a rare armor I get about 689 unreserved mana an lose about 160 life. If we are hit for 4k phys we now take 1330 from life. We also take 588 fire from life, and 644 light from life.
With a lightning coil, if we take MoM, we have to run discipline instead of grace. On my tree this leaves 435 unreserved mana. Then we take 2400*0.75-180+1600*0.17=1892 damage. This time 435 mana is taken first, so we take 1892-435=1457 phys. We take 588 fire, and 476 light.
Conclusion: with our spec the free MoM on cloak of defiance is not appealing. With my build I have about 5.2k EHP with 295 mana reg/sec with my rare armor, and with cloak of defiance it would be 4.9k EHP with 307 mana reg/sec. Since the mitigation of a rare armor + MoM is comparable to cloak, it's better to use a rare armor.
According to the above, the only time L. Coil wins out over Cloak is when Lightning damage is involved, and that is because you would likely be running PoL (If you are not then if would lose that one, too).
Last edited by GoatEatingToilet#3170 on Jul 24, 2014, 1:06:46 AM
The build looks really good.Could easily do normal Atziri as well I think.The only problem I see is you don't have that much unreserved mana after auras( correct me if i'm wrong but i remember you need at least 800-1000 unreserved mana for MOM to be optimal)So a Lightning coil with PoL would be better imo.
Did you even look at the palace map clear lol? Or the build talk. Zombies are linked with multistrike to make pack clearing faster. I say I cleared a 78 map relatively quickly =/.
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The build looks really good.Could easily do normal Atziri as well I think.The only problem I see is you don't have that much unreserved mana after auras( correct me if i'm wrong but i remember you need at least 800-1000 unreserved mana for MOM to be optimal)So a Lightning coil with PoL would be better imo.
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If the idea is to go Lightning Coil over Cloak of Defiance, this may just change your opinion (this is going from his build, which is different, but the comparison is very interesting):
Interesting post. There is nothing wrong with my build I think... just my gears. I mentioned in my talk that my gear was very un-optimized haha xD.
Am thinking of dropping Alpha Howls as soon as I get myself a set of Full es gear that also has hp and resists on them. This way I can drop Discipline and have even more unreserved mana.
I'll have to think about my chest armor, who knows maybe the next update will release another unique chest that would be even better for the build. But am also looking at Belly of the Beast. That seems to be a very viable option as well.
I'll have to think about my chest armor, who knows maybe the next update will release another unique chest that would be even better for the build. But am also looking at Belly of the Beast. That seems to be a very viable option as well.
If the new 4-month leagues do not hold my interest, I am all set to try your new build in standard, heh.
Obviously the last one is not the best choice for our socket color needs... well, maybe it's fine. 3B3R, right? Anyway, I still need to see about tweaking that armour anyway.
I saw how he mentioned that switching weapons makes the spirits disappear, that seems ... manageable. I thought I saw the spells-have-culling-strike dagger and a shield in the offhand, I'm wondering if thats where you put arc+iir+iiq
I was running my summoner as an MFer, and having arc in the chest piece really eats up a lot of sockets, but I dont want to lose the ability to cull for items
Curious what matt has in his offhands, and whether the staff is adding anything to the spirits more than the +2 to fire. Do the increased fire/spell damage mods affect the spirits?
if you had your spirits in the chest piece and were using a bow and quiver would that defeat the issues you were having with the spirits disappearing on weapon swap to arc?
Curious what matt has in his offhands, and whether the staff is adding anything to the spirits more than the +2 to fire. Do the increased fire/spell damage mods affect the spirits?
if you had your spirits in the chest piece and were using a bow and quiver would that defeat the issues you were having with the spirits disappearing on weapon swap to arc?
The increased fire and spell damage mods only apply to you and not your minions. They technically do buff the SRS spell, but only when you cast it (so, in essence, it is a useless buff that is lost after they are created, as the spirits themselves are different entities and do not benefit from the mods).
That would defeat the issues of the spirits disappearing, but it would also eat into the DPS with no additional levels added to them or their supports (unless you had a +1 to gems chest, which would make it slightly better).
I mean you still can 4-L a spectre, Increased duration flesh offering on your off-hand.
After playing like that for an hour or so it felt sort of clunky and having my raging spirits all disappear while I went ahead to buff them. It was decreasing my overall dps while clearing maps, On bosses its w/e.
Also am not sure if flesh offering works on minions that you summon after buffing?
Either way no spectre means I have the freedom to not use ullr anymore. Way more defensive stats for my character now.
@the Bow/Quiver combo
You can still summon raging spirit even with a bow equipped so my idea was instead of +2 or +3 levels to spirit from a staff you could potentially go Bow + Quiver with all defensive stats. Or even that regen bow or block quiver.
