Yeah. We need an auction house.
" The irony of your post is great. Chris Wilsons whole explanation that alt tabbing out of the game, messaging 20 people, sitting in your hideout wasting time to buy a single item was good gameplay was literally "trustmebro". The manifesto has 97 pages of people explaining why Chris makes no sense. Try reading that. Last edited by trixxar#2360 on Mar 8, 2025, 4:18:35 PM
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Call me weird but I prefer trading as it is now to any auction house... I like going to the players' HO and having them come to mine ^^
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" Oh i read that, the standard whiny commenteers do like to repost their "opinon" every chance they get. And could it be? you still failed to provide a source? so we're still at trust me bro. Chris wilson was also the boss, he could do what he wants. Hard to swallow for bros like you, but it is what it is. I actually also would like to have an ah. I have enough mates to control some small part of the market. And with the general intelligence here, it would be easy. Current Build: Penance Brand
God build?! https://pobb.in/bO32dZtLjji5 |
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Chris Wilson addressed this directly, stating that trading had to be factored in to the progression system. The more people trade, the less drops there can be to prevent inflation.
Don't get mad at me, but to use a reference Diablo 3 on launch had the auction house and the drops were so bad the only way to gear up was to sell 5 items you found for enough currency to buy the 1 item upgrade. I think my first character made it through the whole campaign without ever finding anything I could actually use. To put this in PoE terms, imagine burning through a T16 map and hoovering up every rare. Identify and drop in a sell tab, don't even read it. Set the price for 1-2 Chaos and you'd get insanely rich. One thing to consider is that crafting has almost eclipsed the need for trading. Especially late in the league I'll search for something simple, like boots + life + movement speed + chaos resist. The lowest price item will be a mediocre item for 100c. I'll go craft one better in 5 minutes and roll with it. As for scams, I hate interacting with other people too. I fell for a classic one this league. I was doing the 50 t17 map completion and someone got me on the ole corrupted map switcharoo. I didn't lose anything it was just much less fun for a couple of them. Last edited by Omgawd#5441 on Mar 9, 2025, 6:32:16 AM
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Trading (like everything else in this game) is a learned skill. The OP's scenario of price checking an item and getting fooled by price fixers was contingent on them selling that item to the player who whispered to buy it at 'bot-like speed'.
Just right off the top; you do not need to sell an item to somebody just because they whispered you first. I've often had a situation where I knew the market value of an item and priced it a little lower just to sell it quickly--I ignore all the try-hards who clearly are using some sort of tool that scrubs the API faster than the trade site's auto alert. Give the item to someone who doesn't play like a degenerate. If these people are out there and you don't like the way they play; don't reward their behaviour. Learn to price check an item a little better. An affix roll can mean the difference between a 1c item and a 1div item. Don't just go by the lowest listed prices. What are the most recent listings going for? Searching by newest listing also improves the buying experience: Time after time I see people make a remark like "I whispered 20 people and got no response"--OK, whisper the people who just listed the item and you're far more likely to get an invite to trade (keeping in mind if it was just listed and priced low, that player is likely being bombarded with whispers). As for scams, you learn to avoid those with time. 99 times out of 100, negative trading experiences are a skill issue. The argumentation of "I don't see why we can't have an AH" is not a compelling argument to implement one--doubly so when the same person anecdotally could have done something to prevent the negative experience they had. I'm not against an alternate way to facilitate trade but you better have a concept that addresses and avoids the pitfalls of a traditional AH. The currency exchange was a good pressure valve for bulk trades but even so its design doesn't really work for trading div cards for example. |
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" "Good gameplay"? Chris never said friction is "good gameplay". Friction is there to improve or preserve other factors. Always. Be that trading friction, friction in boss mechanics, gear walls or whatever. In some cases, friction is needed for that final sense of accomplishment. "All" games have some sort of friction, and the friction itself is almost never "good gameplay". If you want the t-spoon, here we go: Chris and GGG always wanted a game built around an economy, but they never wanted trading to be 'everything', but to give items a value even though they did not fit your build. Initially, trading was being done on the forums and in trade chat. Trading needed a time sink to not completely reduce drops, items and farming to ash. Trading needed to be as much "on par" with the other pillars of the game. Efficiency driven players did of course find a more efficient way of trading, like they always do in RNG driven games, where they indexed the forum through the API, making a very detailed search engine. After a while, GGG caved and made their own. Have we evolved past that? Sure, but the philosophy still remains: Trading needs friction, investment and/or effort, be that through time, knowledge or gold. So, they introduced the Currency Exchange, and what happened? They introduced gold as a friction to limit trading by actually playing the game and people are still whining because they can't trade every second of their play time, which was never intended. Trade NEEDS limiting for gameplay to be gameplay. Is gold a better limiting tool? Arguably yes, but people are still complaining. Is adding limits to how much or how often you can trade a better solution? Maybe, but that would also raise havoc in here. If you disagree with trade needing limiting, fine; agree to disagree, but those limitation is "friction". And you (and I) can prefer other types of friction/limiting, but far from everyone would. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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For currency I totally agree but as far as items go, I don't think it would ever work.
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" I did read your full post and agree with most of what you said. My problem lies with this portion here. If you play SSF, you've already opted out of trade. If you play trade, trade will almost always be vastly superior to every other method of crafting, gearing, IDing from the ground, due to the nature of RNG, "waste" products from someone crafting mirror tier producing a dozen other attempt items, or simply players who play 12+ hrs a day are going to find things you are not. There are dozens of ways to fix this, the main one being improving crafting, which GGG actively moved away from with harvest nerfs and nerfing self found options like Ritual. Saying "trade shouldn't be everything" but then making trade everything, and keeping systems there to intentionally annoy players, is just lazy design. You can say "different people like different things". I've never met a single person who said "I like alt tabbing, using a search function, going back in the game, messaging people who don't reply, alt tabbing again, etc." And I don't think you could make a rational case that such a person exists. ---- And to everyone quoting Chris - hes gone. Thank god. Last edited by trixxar#2360 on Mar 9, 2025, 4:24:11 PM
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" Agree on both points, sort of. SSF is and will always be a good example that the game doesn't have to be all about trade, it's only the path of least resistance that takes us down that path. And for trading to not be "everything"? Well, I don't know the answer here, but no matter what the answer is, it involves a lot of restrictions, limitations and unpopular decisions. Because the easier they make crafting, the better/easier trade gets. So, cooldown on trades, maximum amounts of trades per day, items having limits on how many times they can be traded, soul-bound items, serious gold/currency sinks and more. There are many "solutions", but they are all going to be controversial and unpopular for a lot of players. No one likes alt tabbing, and every trade mechanic should've been implemented into the game years ago - and the public API shut down. The fact that PoE 2 launched with this mess, is shocking. Now, I don't want an AH or even offline-enabled trading when it comes to gear, but the game needs serious trade QoL and has for a very long time. I'm talking about PoE 1 here, if there was any doubt. They can do whatever they want with PoE 2, I couldn't care less. Sometimes, just sometimes, you should really consider adapting to the world, instead of demanding that the world adapts to you.
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" One thing to consider is both sides are at "trust me bro" You are not wrong, none of those people that replied at the manifesto can really say that removing friction would be better for the game But conversely, chris also dont have actual basis to say the opposite because an experimental ah league was never tried And its hard to pinpoint a game with similar mold of economy to poe, there are games like wow that is similar-ish, but whether the economy there is ruined by gold-sellers or works well enough to not interfere with the average player is a hotly debated issue. A game that would be a very good comparison would be D3, IF there was any patch with only gold ah and no rmah, alas, both ahs were killed on the same patch I think im not alone when i say faustus was the biggest qol change the game has seen in a looong while. The gold restriction worked well, who can say something like it cant be implemented for a more global automated trade? Tie gold fee to affix rarity or something like that. GGG has worked many creative solutions for many issues over the years, is there really no way around balancing item drop by making trade annoying enough people would avoid it? And honestly, if you and your little group of people can corner the market with an ah, you can corner it as it is, i mean... you think there isnt cornering on the market? The settlers manifesto they outright mentioned faustus was in part about not having to waste time whispering to price-fixers |
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