What is up with the decision making? They trying to kill their own game?

I do not think that adding content to towers makes them good, JUST MORE ANNOYING, I do not run towers for rewards, I do it to slot a tablet in - I think that lowering the size of all zones would be what makes them good.

When people complained that towers were boring it wasn't because towers were boring, but because they take too long due to area size.

Towers are best as a quick break from all the map running that you can complete fast in order to slot the tablet in.

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doombybbr#6074 wrote:

I do not think that adding content to towers makes them good, JUST MORE ANNOYING, I do not run towers for rewards, I do it to slot a tablet in - I think that lowering the size of all zones would be what makes them good.

When people complained that towers were boring it wasn't because towers were boring, but because they take too long due to area size.

Towers are best as a quick break from all the map running that you can complete fast in order to slot the tablet in.

What is the difference between a regular node and a tower, besides that you are able to put in a tablet after completion?

The decision making is definitely a problem. [Removed by Support]

The problem with towers is they now go from mindless quick trips through a map to press a button to yet another map that must be cleared before juicing. They aren't improving any maps, tower maps still suck, 90% of other maps still suck. They are just adding more time to the tedious/frustrating part of mapping.

But what they should be doing is fixing that. Personally, I think the endgame they came up with at the last minute(delaying EA) should be scrapped entirely for something fun and innovative. But that will take probably at least a year of a team working on it. And they definitely should spend a good deal of time planning it out before they start coding. In the meantime their endgame is a slog that isn't enjoyable once you figure out the best means of playing it.

Alternatively, they could stick with this endgame and fix it. That means a big adjustment to most of the maps as they are not fun to run. Changing the requirement to completing maps, either through variety or by adding a boss to every map and making that the requirement. And removing towers. Simply make them a node you click on and throw a tablet in, no running of yet another map.

They also need to fix most of the pinnacle content. Namely one-shots and balancing things. Citadels, atlas pathing, etc.

And finally they need to change how they are communicating as well as patching the game. One or the other might suffice, but both would be great. They clearly aren't transparent. Barely a peep is heard and they ignore hard questions(or laugh them off). They don't even say something like "we are discussing X" which they may not even see as an issue but they know the community does. Patching should be happening all the time. Break our builds but also give us lots of freedom in changing builds. Free respecs, vendor provided skill/support/spirit gems, etc. The game would feel alive and players would be excited to try new things.

We'll have to wait and see what 0.2.0 has, and whether is breathes or sucks life into/out of the game. But so far the teasers point to the latter.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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doombybbr#6074 wrote:

I do not think that adding content to towers makes them good, JUST MORE ANNOYING, I do not run towers for rewards, I do it to slot a tablet in - I think that lowering the size of all zones would be what makes them good.

When people complained that towers were boring it wasn't because towers were boring, but because they take too long due to area size.

Towers are best as a quick break from all the map running that you can complete fast in order to slot the tablet in.

What is the difference between a regular node and a tower, besides that you are able to put in a tablet after completion?

The fact that a tower you want to get done as fast as possible because the tablet is the goal, while a normal map you want to full clear for loot. The incentives are different and slowing down a tower map such that people are FORCED to full clear is ignoring that the player goal of a tower is different.

The difference is psychological

Towers Ver 1.0 was good. It was fast and easy. Even if you didn't use tablets, you still could consider them as a shortcut on your Atlas.

There are no elegant words to describe it - endgame in POE 2 sucks. As much as I hate to admit this, as a fan of POE in general.

The POE 1 loop may be giving players a little TOO much agency, because their strategies often devolve into grinding one map with one league mechanic repeated 1000 times ad nauseaum. These crimson temple farms or dunes / strand etc strats are pretty damn boring in the long run, yet they are massively popular and players are often pushed towards those by content creators.

The fact that I have to run terrible fucking obnoxious map layouts just to path to the one i actually want to play - that's dreadful design. It reminds me of greedy, heavily monetized pay2skip games that purposefully put absolutely filthy content in front of fun content just to make you pay money to skip it.

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Esubane#6099 wrote:

There are no elegant words to describe it - endgame in POE 2 sucks. As much as I hate to admit this, as a fan of POE in general.

The POE 1 loop may be giving players a little TOO much agency, because their strategies often devolve into grinding one map with one league mechanic repeated 1000 times ad nauseaum. These crimson temple farms or dunes / strand etc strats are pretty damn boring in the long run, yet they are massively popular and players are often pushed towards those by content creators.

The fact that I have to run terrible fucking obnoxious map layouts just to path to the one i actually want to play - that's dreadful design. It reminds me of greedy, heavily monetized pay2skip games that purposefully put absolutely filthy content in front of fun content just to make you pay money to skip it.

I find it worse than that, in that there is no way to guarentee a good map will spawn and the reward icons are more important than the layout - you are essentially forced to run completely random maps to be efficient. And because you are running essentailly random maps you end up not actually CARING about the current map layout unless it is terrible.

This is a symptom of infinite atlas, when if they made it a finite atlas you would actually have a reason to care about the layout as you could actually do it more than once. If they do not want us to repeat the same map over and over they could just make it so we have to do 5 maps in the radius before a new tablet could be added, so you are forced to do some variety.

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doombybbr#6074 wrote:

I do not think that adding content to towers makes them good, JUST MORE ANNOYING, I do not run towers for rewards, I do it to slot a tablet in - I think that lowering the size of all zones would be what makes them good.

When people complained that towers were boring it wasn't because towers were boring, but because they take too long due to area size.

Towers are best as a quick break from all the map running that you can complete fast in order to slot the tablet in.

Exactly, There´s already too much work and quite annoying to path your way on the atlas over to a set of towers with connected good maps. A good area worth to really juice up need at least 4-5+ towers covering some nice maps.

And now they decide to make the towers like maps, which basically mean at least 4-5+ extra maps to do to get a good area set up, making the grind even slower and longer, but not only that, on top of it, the tablets "things" are now also diluted out covering towers. Which also means you don´t want to put a tablet into a tower straight after you finish it, in risk of losing the "things" on other towers, making the grind to a nice area also be worse since they will not gradually be more juiced as you progress the atlas.

End result are = A significant map atlas nerf, both making the grind significantly longer and also making the maps have less "things" on them.

It´s just punishment, after punishment, after punishment in their f ing decision making. From what they have showcased i am just gonna give last epoch a chance instead. GGG are completely out of touch.



There´s a reason softcore are the most popular gamemode in virtually all arpg games where softcore is an option. Hardcore/Ruthless etc are a niche thing for a minority of arpg players.

This forced "Ruthless" gamemode to basegame are already too much. Now they gonna slow down and punish atlas progression even more??????? Seriously!!!!!

for whatever reason they are refusing to admit something is wrong with early game/campaign

they claim x amount of people made it thru.. ok sure.. that dont mean any of them enjoyed it or didnt cheese it or get help

people HAD to get thru early game/campaign.

its still bad. it still needs help

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BrainVs#6980 wrote:

for whatever reason they are refusing to admit something is wrong with early game/campaign

they claim x amount of people made it thru.. ok sure.. that dont mean any of them enjoyed it or didnt cheese it or get help

people HAD to get thru early game/campaign.

its still bad. it still needs help

What are you talking about? The only good thing this game has is the Campaing, especially, Act 1. Please tell us what you're refering to.